how to tell r12 from 134?

[opossum]

Hi guys,
a few years ago I paid my local (and sorta trusted) indy mechanic to convert the ac system over to 134..well, it didnt take so well and slowly got warmer and warmer over the course of a year and a half. I took it to some refrigeration experts and he swore up and down that it wasnt converted and was still r12. Is there a way to tell for sure on my own? BTW, where do I find the fitting/adapter to fit the fill port on the ac on an 89 190e? It doesnt fit the one from napa that was supposed to fit.
thanks, opossum

the refrigeration expert should have a freon identifier, that will tell you for sure, buy if it was still R12 i doubt you would have had the problems you mentioned of it getting warmer overtime. i recently converted two of my mercedes cars back to R-12 because of cooling performance issues. both now go below 40 degrees.

[Arthur Dalton]

Getting warmer over time is usually a sign of a refrigerant leak. There are other causes , but that would be first on the list.
R12 or 134 don't lose there cooling properties over time ..they leak out of the system.
If the fittings have outside threads with a flare connection , they are R12 . Usually when a unit has been converted , they replace the fittings with the 134 adapters , being an indicator of 134 swap.. Evidently these were not changed , but that does not mean someone did not recharge w/134 without changing the fittings..but on the other hand , if the fittings were changed, it has been changed to 134a..

If your tech did NOT put 134 fittings on the car and indeed put 134 in it, he was in violation of FEDERAL law.

As Arthur pointed out, the only way to know is with a refrigerant identifier. The best bet would be to flush the system and convert back to R12 which has come down in price of late.

Good luck,

[Arthur Dalton]

>

..while 134 has been going through the roof ..
They may meet at an equal $$$$ at these rates !!!!!

Nah ......

[opossum]

Thanks alot guys!

[opossum]

Hi guys,
Here is the update. I found my old invoice from the AC job. It is indeed r12 still. I don't know how I missed that originally...I could have sworn he was going to convert it. I'm actually glad he didn't. So now I just have to ask for a recommend on stop leak. The leak was very slow, so I'm hoping some over the counter life support could do the trick.

thanks again, opossum

[blueranger]

there is this new stuff out that is compatible with r-12 you can just add to the system... i did it and it works great...

i think its called freeze 12 and i got it on ebay...

i went to get r12 and the guy wanted 100 bucks a pound and
100 bucks to put it in..

Originally Posted by opossum

Hi guys,
Here is the update. I found my old invoice from the AC job. It is indeed r12 still. I don't know how I missed that originally...I could have sworn he was going to convert it. I'm actually glad he didn't. So now I just have to ask for a recommend on stop leak. The leak was very slow, so I'm hoping some over the counter life support could do the trick.

thanks again, opossum

DON'T USE STOPLEAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You will very possibly totally destroy the system with that stuff. If you get a leak it reacts with the air and can turn the ENTIRE system into a gunked up mess. I'm surprised that one of these stop leak companies haven't been hit with a class action lawsuit.

Just find the leak, repair it and recharge.

Good luck,

Originally Posted by blueranger

there is this new stuff out that is compatible with r-12 you can just add to the system... i did it and it works great...

i think its called freeze 12 and i got it on ebay...

i went to get r12 and the guy wanted 100 bucks a pound and
100 bucks to put it in..

I just bought R12 a few months ago for $14.06 per pound delivered to my door. That guy was preying on the unsuspecting people who still think that the stuff is expensive.

Do not mix Freeze 12 and R12. It will make you cool but will not circulate the lubricant properly resulting in a destroyed compressor. Once the compressor fails then you will have to flush the entire system ENTIRELY to get out the debris from the destroyed compressor so that it will not destroy the next compressor.

There is no quick fix folks. All you do, is find the leak or other bad component, repair it, evacuate and recharge with the correct refrigerant. Even if you saved $50 on refrigerant by converting or using a junk refrigerant, that is a drop in the bucket compared to the hidden, long term cost.

Best of luck,

[Robert W. Roe]

Originally Posted by LarryBible

DON'T USE STOPLEAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You will very possibly totally destroy the system with that stuff. If you get a leak it reacts with the air and can turn the ENTIRE system into a gunked up mess. I'm surprised that one of these stop leak companies haven't been hit with a class action lawsuit.

Just find the leak, repair it and recharge.

Good luck,

I was surprised to see Interdynamics sells R-134 mixed with stop leak additives, as well as a so-called performance enhancer, at Target.

[boneheaddoctor]

Originally Posted by Robert W. Roe

I was surprised to see Interdynamics sells R-134 mixed with stop leak additives, as well as a so-called performance enhancer, at Target.

Two tipoffs there...#1 its sold to the public and #2 its at target.

I wouldn't single out Target as THE culprit. This snake oil is sold about anywhere that sells 134. What's worse is that it is commonly sold in a do it yourself can with a suicide hose and two bit color coded gauge attached. This is just too big of a temptation for most folks on a limited budget driving around in the Summer with their windows rolled down.

In most cases this time bomb will allow them to roll up their windows,,,, for a short period of time before they have to roll the windows back down and leave them down OR replace LOTS of components for LOTS of bucks. In some cases it results in a car hitting the wrecking yard before its time.

I sometimes help my neighbors and friends to fix their car a/c. When they tell me that they have put in stopleak, I tell them that I am not able to help them. For one reason, I don't want my expensive equipment to be exposed to the stuff and the other is that it is almost always major surgery to fix it for the long term. I like to think of myself as a good neighbor, but spending a weekend or two completely rebuilding an a/c is a little too much to ask of anyone. I suppose I would do it for my Mom or someone in my immediate family, but they would not put such junk in their cars without asking me to be the one to put it in.

Have a great day,

[Robert W. Roe]

What amazes me is that companies that sell straight R134 also sell this stop leak enhanced stuff right along side it.
You would think that a company's reputation would be worth more than making a buck or two more per can.
And LarryBible is correct, this stuff is sold just about anywhere that has a substantial automotive section... AutoZone (which kinda surprises me the most, being a huge auto parts chain), Wal-Mart, Target, K-Mart, etc. etc.
I was even tempted by the more colorful can for a few moments until I read the ingredients and said to myself, I wonder if LarryBible would use something like this.
I walked away, went home, and started searching posts.
Thanks, Larry

[csnow]

I think folks look at the cans side-by-side and figure that the stuff with 'performance enhancer' or 'stop leak' is an upgrade from the plain stuff.

Who wouldn't want 'performance enhancer' for just a little more money, right?

The unfortunate thing is the vicious cycle this sets up in the marketplace. Folks look for a quick-fix-in-a-can because getting their AC serviced is so expensive. All the assorted crap moving about in AC systems is a major cost factor for AC technicians, and the cycle repeats...