Mercedes-Benz oil specification

[tonimus]

I know, I know... Another oil question. I have sifted through MANY discussions, but have been unable to ascertain
(1) Exactly how MB Oil Spec 2xx.x applies to which vehicles, and (2) which spec I should be referring to when deciding which oil to put in my low-mileage (just turned over 40k) '92 500SL.

Can someone please give me an overview, or possibly point me to the proper web site? Thanks in advance for the enlightenment. This forum has been a most excellent resource for me the past few months.

- Tony

[JHZR2]

there is a pdf file from the ethyl corportation (makers of oil and fuel additives), which outlines allt he various API, ACEA, MB, etc specs that are out there.

It looks liek 228.x correlates almost exactly to 229.x without the fuel economy savings. 228 is typically for HD engines, 229 is for passenger vehicles.

I believe any of the oils on the MB approved list would work. For an older engine, 229.1 or 229.3 would be best. Make sure viscosity is correct, and regardless of engine, synthetic oils are typically better.

For an older design engine, a 22.3 oil would probably work well too. 15w-40 was very common in engines of your vintage, and if you get a good HD diesel 15w-40 (also 228.3 and API SL verified, so its OK for gas engines), youll have a killer additive package, which will help neutralize and clean out a lot of junk in your engine, which may accumulate due to sitting or having limited use.

JMH

[JeffreyP]

Here's the link

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html

Good Luck
JeffreyP

[JHZR2]

Thats a good one for approved oils.

I made a consolidation for comparisson of the MB specs. There is also a link tot he ethyl pdf file, which you can use for in depth consideration of various oil specs, to see just how the different ones match up:

here

JMH

[JeffreyP]

Originally posted by JHZR2
Thats a good one for approved oils.

I made a consolidation for comparisson of the MB specs. There is also a link tot he ethyl pdf file, which you can use for in depth consideration of various oil specs, to see just how the different ones match up:

here

JMH

Hi Mr. JMH

Since you are at it, would you give a clearer definition of 228, 229.1, 229.3 so that I can understand it better.

Thanks,
JeffreyP

[JHZR2]

The link I posted shows the specs better than how I could phrase it.

MB228.x specs are typically for heavy-duty diesel engines. Look ont he backs of any 15w-40 HD diesel oil sold at truckstops or wal-mart, etc., and youll typically see that it meets MB228.3, just as it meets a variety of CAT, Cummins, Mack, Detroit and other diesel specs.

Judging from how it looks to me, the 228.x specs are nearly identical to the similarly numbered 229.x specs. However, there are a few differences.

-229.x specs are also tested on a gas engine to see if there is a fuel economy improvement over the standard oil

-229.x specs require a prerequisite ACEA rating (A3/B3 for gas and diesels, if I recall correctly). The ACEA ratings are similar to the API ratings, which are currently SL for spark engines and CI-4 for 4-stroke diesel compression engines). However the ACEA has tiered setup, with A for gas engines, B for LD diesels, as arepopular in europe, and E for HD diesels. A1 and B1 are the low end' specs, for cheaper oils. A3/B3 are the high end specs, making tougher oils that stayin grade at high temps and high shear, as well as long drain intervals. A5/B5 is for an extended drain compatible cheaper oil.

-229.5 oils are very rare besides M1 0w-40, and 228.5 oils are nonexistant in the US, as far as I can tell.

-More or less, the only difference between a 229.1 oil and a 229.3 oil (or similarly between the 228. and 3 oils), is how long the oil can go in a tester before it causes excessive wear, begins to break down or coke up, begins to burn up, or begins to thickenup. As the spec numbers go up, the oils get better.

-I am not aware of any info stating that a newer spec shouldnt be used in an older engine. There are a variety of oils available for each spec, so that oil use can be tailored to climate/season. Modern synthetics are very versatile though, and quite good for large ranges. This is often due to basestock design, and so a 0w-40 oil for a new car may be the same basestock/ acceptable for useas a 10w-40 oil speced inanolder engine, it all depends on how the tempoerature/viscosity curve goes.

Your best bet is to buy an oil on MBs suggested list, or that stats that it meets MB specs. If a 10 or 15w-40 or 50 oil is specced for your car, my first try would be Mobil1 0w-40 or 15w-50. The 15w-50 at least used to classify for MB229.1, and the 0w-40 for 229.5. The ony real way to see if the oil is doing its job best is to get a sample when doing a change, and send it out for analysis. Otherwise, oil might be fine or might not be a good match for your engine. If your engine leaks, or youre not willing to use a synthetic due to price, etc., Id suggest a 15w-40 HD diesel oil, which sells for $6/gal nd meets MB 228.x specs. MPG might be slightly less (not more than 1-2%), but the oil will do an excellent job of protecting your engine.

Note though, if your engine is specced for 5 or 10w-30 oil inall climates (doubtful), then Id suggest an ACEA A3/B3 oil of correct grade, either 0,5, or 10w30, any of which could be interchanged. My suggeston at that point would be to go to autozone if there is one around, and find the castrol syntec 0w-30 that has red labeling and says made in germany on the back. This is a killer oil, and not a 'fake' synthetic as the other syntec oils are.

Hope this helps,

JMH

[tonimus]

Thanks for taking the time to explain, JMH (and thanks for the link, JeffreyP).

- Tony

Not to spoil the party but large corporations like American and Japanese companies are recommending very low viscosity oils more to help them meet their Corporate Average Fuel Economy numbers than to insure long term reliability. The so-called economy oils aren't going to make a lot of difference in real world fuel economy but they sure make a big difference when you're creeping along in traffic and the ambient temps are well over triple digits. When that happens, I want an oil that maintains it's viscosity not some oil that helps the Ford Motor Company knock off a 1/10 or so of theoretical fuel mileage improvement.

BTW, the big difference between 0W-40 and 15W-50 Mobil 1 is that the lower viscosity oil has to meet a standard that limits the amount of anti-wear additives which is supposed to be better for catalytic converters. The 15W-50 doesn't have to meet that standard so it has more Zinc. I don't think that the additional Zinc makes any difference to the cats.

I know when I'm pulling the Grapevine in California in 100+ temps and my 300E has a full trunk, I'll be better protected with 15W-50 Mobil 1 than with a 10W-30 Mobil 1 which isn't even a PAQ based oil and which is NOT recommended by Mercedes Benz.

[JHZR2]

the lube oil design and additive package of even a cheapo 5w-20 oil like motorcraft has been shown to provide excellent wear rates in used oil analyses.
It is true though that oil viscosities have been lowered to get a few more mpg. In MBs case though, this is not necessarily true. 40wt oil has forever been about the max viscosity used in the USA for typical cars. tolerances havent really decreased much, and some drop the viscosity anyway. MB hasnt. The 0 portion of the viscosity is only really relevant at -35C or so, and iut is certainly of sufficient viscosity to flow well and protect at any normal temperature. Under load, a synthetic 40wt oil will be quite excellent.

I have to wonder if 15w-50 has more or less viscosity improvers/depressants thanthe 0w-40. Many synthetic bases can be designed without any, by adding esters, etc. one way or another, so long as they dont shear down much, both are excellent oils, and in an older car, the ZDDP zinc additive should be a non-issue for poisoning the cat.

JMH

[mpolli]

Originally Posted by JeffreyP

Here's the link

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html

Good Luck
JeffreyP

The info on the above link contains the following statement: "229.5 engine oils must be used with fleece oil filter designed for use with 229.5 engine oils. MBUSA dealers use fleece oil filters for everything now. "

What does that mean? I used a Mann filter which I assume is fine but what is fleece? I looked for 229.3 oil but all they had was 229.5.

Mike

[lee polowczuk]

I'll stick with dino 20w-50 in the summer.

Originally Posted by mpolli

The info on the above link contains the following statement: "229.5 engine oils must be used with fleece oil filter designed for use with 229.5 engine oils. MBUSA dealers use fleece oil filters for everything now. "

What does that mean? I used a Mann filter which I assume is fine but what is fleece? I looked for 229.3 oil but all they had was 229.5.

Mike

Here's a link to a fleece filter.
http://catalog.eautopartscatalog.com/buymb/wizard.jsp?partner=buymb&clientid=buymbparts&baseurl=http://www.***************/&cookieid=1KY103P8T1KY103R4X&year=2004&make=MB&model=E-320-009&category=A&part=Oil+Filter+Kit