Their are so many crap W140's out their.
 

Good examples of these cars are much harder to track down then I thought. My friend and I spent a good chunk of today driving around looking for a W140 for him. We looked at 3, one was flat out junk:
A 1997 S420 that the dealer said was a perfect 9 out of 10 car. Just walking around the car we found the rear view mirrors broken and one was being held on by a wire. :rolleyes: The under body panals were missing and I could see an oil leak coming down from behind the engine and what looked like ATF dripping off the trans pan. The body had a bunch of chips, nicks and marks, the hood star was also missing. the interior was pretty dirty and beat. Without even driving the car I would give it a 5 out of 10. $17k
The next was a 1995 S320 for $10,995. It was actually in pretty good shape but the interior was kind of worn and it had a respray that was noticable. For $9k it was probably a decent buy.
The third car was a 300SE and was pretty decent but it was older then my friend wanted to consider.
Their is also a 1995 S500 local car that is completly shot. The suspension sags and the interior and exterior are beat.

Another downside is since all these cars were at used car lots their were no service records. :rolleyes:

So where are all the one owner, mint, full service record W140's found? I am thinking maybe we should talk to the local MB dealer and try and snag a trade in.

I know with W140's you have to be carefull a used car lot pig can get real $$$$ real fast.

i am thinking
 

the good ones are still with the original owners, who should be trading them soon. hang in there.

tom w

It is very interesting to read about your experiences Hatterasguy because there seem to be so many one owner, "mint condition" W140s on eBay. Perhaps they are like so many other cars on eBay: just dressed up for gross misrepresentation.

Built like a tank, but one with a lot of fragile gadgets that break with and without abuse. They are expensive to repair and most have been in the hands of a second owner who didn't have much money or real interest in the car. It is incredible how low the prices are, seemingly headed below 126s and 124s, which are ridiculously low as well. It's a sad situation for a once proud company and I can only think it gets worse for the next generation of cars.

true comments
 

i am stuck with the 123 and 126 cars. the endless gadgets in the 140 and later cars really put me off.

i had two 124s but wont have any more i dont think.

if i get rich sometime soon i might buy a new one, or if they offer mb diesels in dodges i might buy that. the euro mb dashes int he magnum and crossfire have me interested. my 03 dodge cummins with stick reminds me of a large friendly very strong 240d.

i am thinking of the new dodges and chryslers as low end euro spec mbs.

tom w

It's one of those things that vary, depending on whom you talk to. My 1995 S350 had nothing go wrong in it for 10 years and 171K - other than the engine of course. All gadgets still work. I met a man that owns a 1992 500SEL with 294K miles. Original engine, transmission. He said he replaced one seat motor but everything else was original. I actually drove the car and it got up to 80mph on the highway in no time at all. Engine was also super smooth. The car drove like a dream. Then I know a guy who after owning a 1998 S420 for 130K miles had only replaced the power steering pump. I've heard many bad stories on W140s online, but I've never met anyone who actually experienced horrific events with his or her W140. Go figure.

There is a '95 S320 for sale at the local MB dealership here that is in beautiful condition. It has about 100K miles and they want $10K or so for it. I would say that the Mercedes dealer would probably be a safe bet for finding good condition cars. I'm sure they get a lot of trade-ins, and the cars they sell there would have passed some sort of inspection. If a car is in truely bad shape, it is doubtful an MB dealer would attempt to sell it. Also check Lexus, BMW, Audi, and other high-end dealerships- they frequently get MB trade-ins, and they also would not offer a car for sale if it is not in good condition overall. I bought my E320 at a Lexus dealership, where it was a trade-in. It was a one-owner car, and in beautiful condition for the age and mileage. Don't be discouraged, the W140 is a car that is unique enough that there should be many owners who took very good care of them.

Well, it all depends where do you look for them.

If you want a mint condition W140 with a full service history, the only place I would consider would be an authorized M.B. dealer.

The problem is that most W140s were bought on lease agreements, and most of them had already expired (they usually don't last over 3 to 4 years). Hence, most W140s have already been turned in at the dealerships and sold.

The few W140s that would turn up at dealers now are those bought by regular faithful customers who are ready to change into something new, and as bad as the W220 was, I would say most of this owners are waiting for the W221 to show up and trade their mint W140s.

I bought my 96 S320 from a little old lady who only drove it back and forth to church and once a month to the local MB dealer. I have all records. The son made her sell it because her eyes were going bad. He worked for GM and did not want the car. Good cars are out there you just have to wait till it comes around.

If Hatterasguy's friend bought either

1) a decent W140 with ~115K for $10K.

or

2) a decently optioned Corrola LE (leather, alloys, etc.) for $18,200 out the door. Figure, if he puts down the $10K he'd buy the W140 with and finances the rest over 36 months, he pays another $1,000 in interest - so $19,200 all in all.


Leaving outliers out of it, like perfectly perfect or horribly horrible luck, which scenario do you guys think will end up costing less at the end of 4 years?

well
 

probably the corolla, right? but if he is looking at 140s do you think he will be happy driving a corolla?

tom w

interesting comment
 

Braverichard, that's very interesting to note, because neither shop foreman at the 2 dealerships where I took my (former) Starmark car for service said they recall having seen any common issues with the early 722.6 trans, either.

I think if people have a problem they are going to be vocal and post it online, but a national sample is going to reflect a lot more issues than individual experiences, which are probably generally more pleasing.

There are so many crap W140's out there.
 

Hmmm, time will tell.

W140 vs Corolla LE ???
 

I think no matter how fully optioned the Corolla, it can't come close to the W140 in terms of ride quality, safety, performance, etc. (well maybe it wins at the pump). So the $ comparison may not be very meaningful ?

This past spring there was a really nice '93 500SEL for sale at the MB dealership - 71,000 miles, black, black and they wanted $20,000 for it :eek: .

I think a lot of the w140s that are crap were original lease cars that were bought by second owners (after the original lease expired) who did not take care of them. They have paid them off and are trading them in for something else now - usually not MB - which is why they also do not have records with them. When something expensive broke that was not detrimental to the actual running of the car they just let it go because, after all, they already had a fairly high car payment to deal with.
I am also really surprised that the MB dealership here does not keep records, tools for locking lug nuts, sheepskin seat covers, etc. that come with the cars when traded. I don't know if this is because they don't know any better or what.
When I found my 420SEL I was actually looking for a W140. I am glad now that I got the 420SEL given my current financial state. I will get a W140 when I am out from under credit card payments, car payment, etc. and can actually come up with a decent size down payment and some $$$ in reserve just in case.

This is an interesting thread. I just want to add my thoughts on this. It is amazing to see so many people respond to these cars as being "on lease." I have always wondered how many "New" Mercedes owners and especially owners of S class autos are actually Mercedes Enthusiasts. I have often felt the second owner of a Mercedes is the real enthusiast who will really appreciate the car and take the extra care to keep it nice (Yes, i know that is not always the case!) But why are people leasing these cars? Pride comes with ownership not a lease. I have been searching the tucson for a good quality 98-99 s class for months with asolutely no luck.

One other key note: I remember a few years back, you could count on the quality of a dodge to make it just through the warranty before it rattled to pieces and fell apart. Now I see their quality getting a little better. Ever since the merger the quality of Mercedes has gone down (funny, these cars are just out of waranty, coincidence?). Is a new dodge the better car here? :confused:

I really love my 94 c class outside the wire harness issue. ( i wish more people would write letters and support the effort made by so many here who do not want to see it become a lost cause, go infoage1! :sun_smile ) but I am in no hurry to buy a newer c or e class and especially one that is as poor quality as some I have seen for sale.

Most people I know who buy a new S-class (be it the current W220 or the then new W140) are business owners/executives who, when cars were leased, could take expenses off on their taxes. They also figured that, since they would trade in several years for the new model, a lease payment is usually less each month than a car payment.
A lot of second owners are people who want a Mercedes for the prestige but can't afford a new one - families that want an upscale, reliable and safe vehicle. Most of these people are only interested in the name and prestige but do not care to keep them in tip-top shape. They are also the ones who probably put in green coolant and adhere to the flexible service system :D .

I have a 95 S600 that I am shortly going to be selling. Its black/ black euro model with a factory wine cooler. The interior is a 9.8 of 10. The Exterior is about a 8.5. If I was going to keep the car, I would have the front bumper re-sprayed, because of chips, and the rear 1/4 .....scratch. Has 91k miles.
It has the bottom of the car black also, and the newer style s class chrome wheels, with new conti tires.
Its a beautiful car, to be asking $25,000 seems too cheap, but that is NADA.
e-mail me if you really want to see pics.
ken_christman@ml.com

Seeing how the value of these cars have plummeted, it would not make sense to purchase one of these cars. I agree the only way to get one is to lease! I for one wouldn't want to take the depreciation hit on a new poor quality Mercedes. Second hand ownership is the only thing that would make sense.

I support the idea that the owners of new mercede use them for their business purposes. My boss had a brand new E55 nad a new ML55. He writes their payments off as vehicles that he uses to "chauffer" people around in. The ML is his "mobile office" even though his wife drives it daily. He also writes his boat off as another mobile office. It must be nice to be in a profession where you can write off an exotic vehicle.

And oh yes, I forgot. A guy came in with his brand new Hummer H1 Alpha and was talking to my boss. He writes it off for his business, saying that his business is "rescuing" trucks that are stuck on the rubicon. I can almost gaurantee that the Jeep he has is the trail rig, and this is his show car for his wife.

Good luck, but I think you're going to be very fortunate to get half that.

Thanks but he isn't interested in the V12. Good luck with selling it but in todays market you will be very lucky to get $18k for that car. Its a shame really.

Don't get me wrong for every beat W140 out their I see two beat W126's. :rolleyes: No one takes care of these things they just seem to drive them into the ground.

The search continues.

I'm still trying to figure out $18K for a Toyota Corolla!!! :eek:

Maybe some the folks who are buying new Benzes now are the ones who bought the Corollas when they were young and studied in thier spare time.

Interesting thread! I have to put in my 2 cents. The W140 had, has and will have its warts, and every owner will agree to that. But, it is also the last of a breed, the last of the true big Benz's, the last of the true engineers Benz. This is a car of the type will never be built again, and to own one is to own a classic, even if that "classic" designation doesn't seem appropriate at the moment. The new S class cars are a mere shadow of what the W140 was in both design and reality....they rely more on gadgets and not the true legacy of Mercedes S class quality (I only wish reliability!). And as a secondary thought, if in an accident, I would much rather be in my 2-3/4 ton 500SEL than in the more reliable and lessor Toyota Lexus!
I, at times, entertain the idea of putting my W140 up for sale. After all, it is a gas guzzler, has ASR problems, and it is well let's see....13 years old. Then I look at the reasons for NOT selling it......I can put up with a few warts!!!

I find it interesting that the Maybach cars are built off of a stretched version of the W140 chassis, not the W220 chassis.

Oh here we go again... I recall the exact same things were said about the W126 when the W140 came out and dragged down Mercedes quality ratings in one year!! Humans will always be humans.

An unofficial reason I heard was that since the W140 chassis never made any money, the company simply decided to give the chassis another run at additional revenue by using it for the Maybach. Not to mention that when it comes to solidity and luxury, very few cars can match the W140 chassis in years to come.

Well we have 3 new prospects that look good:
A local 1996 S420 with 99k on it. Owned by a MBCA member, and now by a Judge. I know the car and it is extremly nice.
A 1995 S500 with 60k miles popped up. The seller seems to know these cars and put a picture of every wear area you want to see. He even put it up on a lift and took half a dozen underbody pics! :eek: I don't think my friend will get a bargin on this one but it seems like a good car.
Then their is a 1998 S320 with 70k miles on it. This could be a very good car if we can figure out what the check engine light is. Possible blown head gasket but I suspect that may not be the case. Even if the headgasket is shot I'd still buy the car if the rest of it is mint, the price is right.

The hunt continues... :D

S320...I know it moves my wife's C-class along quite nicely, but isn't it asking a lot to ask a 3.2L V6 to propel the tank-like W140?

i drove one
 

i think maybe it was a 95. i was impressed at how peppy it was. course i am a diesel nerd so what do i know.

tom w

It is an M104 I6 not an M112 V6.

MB stuck a 5spd trans on the back of them and some good gearing. They move along quite nicely and you really only notice a lack of power at higher speeds.

The S320 starts to lack as you approach 100mph. That is where the S500 picks up and pulls strong to 140ish. And if you really need to go the S600 will not run out of steam to over 170. :D

95 s500 coupe $12,000
 

I have a clean s500 coupe 74,000 miles very good condition, let me know if your interested. thanks....

I love my Grand Edition.

Braverichard, Hatterasguy and others in the MB Psyche, (not psycho), as that sometimes fits me!

This is a very genuine forum and I learned what I had sought here about MB's, personality, the good, the bad and the ugly. But, better yet, the good people here, who seek the truth about things, as they are and correct matters, and make things right, for all to benefit.

I have always wanted to own a good MB Diesel, but, as things are now with my health and the price of fuel, Diesel specifically, now is not the time for me. If I find the "right car" at he right price...ah well, you know, things are different then.

The V12s are another story, the market has dropped like a bomb! I mentioned in a previous post, before the cleaning out of the forum, last week, that I was looking for my possibly, last car. The W140 series is what I desire. There is no way on Earth or Mars, that it is justifyable, but that's what I want, that's what pleases me. Rolls-Royce Silver Spirits do too. BMW V12's. Must mention Ferrari 400-412's. Now is the time to buy one, before the shock of the price of fuel, comes back to reality. All of them have something that is wrong with design and execution, that takes big bucks to fix, but that's life. Enjoy what you can and get on with it.

Just what was on my mind tonight after reading this topic...Paul.

Paul,

I'm glad you have all the information you need to make a sound, emotional decision.

Good luck

Good for you!

Update:
so far we have a very clean 1997 S320 that looks like it may be a winner. We are also going to check out another nice S420 that I know about that could be a winner.

Finding one of these things is like trying to find a needle in a stack of needles!:D


Paul you will love the S600, nothing like hearing that 6L V12 scream. Just buy a very nice full maintaince records example and you shouldn't have to many problems.

Ah yes, and now the search begins :bulb:

just for kicks
 

you should drive a nice 400i. the fuel injection is identical to two 280e bosch systems so should be bulletproof. the rear leveling system is just like a 300td. the stylling is sublime, as is the sound.

i am sure the 600 benz is excellent too.

tom w

Tom. thanks for the good thought. There was one listed on ebay, up here in mid-MI, with a $15000. reserve, black with a turbo-hydramatic 400, 3-speed, 38000 miles. It was gone before I could get an inquiry to him.

This last car scenario opens up my thinking on many choices. I would be happy with a mid-60's pickup, straight 6 and 3 on the tree, to be truthfull to myself. My 2 old cars, from the 70's are fine. It's a human desire based on emotion and faith, rather than practical reasons, to want this V12 hotrod.

If you would, I want to hear your and the gangs thoughts, on a last car. What choices would you make in a car? Changes the topic, but I'd like to know. Paul :)

Get a 600 S-Class... best car on earth. You won't regret it! :)

The most expensive 140 you could ever own is the one you pick up cheap:P

Paul Hansen
'97 S500
PS The sound of the 119.170 V8 comming up on cam is nothing short of awesome!! BTW- I average about 23mpg on the highway and 17mpg around town-not bad.

Yes...

But hearing that M120 V-12 in my dads SL600 come up to speed on the freeway, will put a HUGE smile on your face. Do it. Go for the 600. You will not be dissappointed (until it needs a throttle body). It is the best of very world. Endless power, timeless styling, and knowing you are a pround owner of a 600.

The only problem with the S600 is you have to watch the speedo, triple digit speeds come on extremly fast!:D

We found one. My friend just won a 1997 S320 on ebay. It has 72k miles on it and is a two owner car with a full service history from a MB dealer. The currant owner bought it for is wife less then a month ago and she doesn't like it. She wants another suv and doesn't want the W140. He loves the car but is a BMW guy and won't give his up.

He paid $11,550 for it, the ebay auction wasn't set up well so that seemed to have hurt it. Plus the seller has zero feed back. But from phone conversations and viewing some pics he sent us I think this car is the real deal.

Wednesday with a bit of luck we will pick it up and see. I plan on going over it with a fine tooth comb.

Congratulations! But I would point out that you haven't actually found one that isn't a piece of crap if you haven't yet seen it. Good luck.

You know I always wonder what it feels like to be in cars much faster than the S600. I drove an S600 Coupe (now CL-Class) just three weeks ago and it felt faster than hell. Acceleration at ALL speeds (I actually did a 110mph - 130mph and it was very fast) is incredible. Can't help but wonder what a current generation S600 feels like with much more power, better engine power delivery and management and less vehicle weight. Not mention what super fast cars like a Saleen or a Ferari Enzo feels like. :eek:

Very true. Car looks sharp, though I hate the interior color (just my personal crappy crap taste :P )

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/WDBGA32GOVA348369_W0QQitemZ4585500018QQcategoryZ6336QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If my memory serves me, the same V12 (M120?) used in the W140's is found in the Koesingg(sp?) CCR. But in this car it is in Brabus tuned 7.3L form. This thing weighs probably about half as much as the W140 if not less. Has the widest tires I have ever seen on a car 350? I would imagin dropping the throttle in that car would feel like the hand of god came down and punched you in the back.:cool:

Needless to say I would kill for one, doing 250mph on I-91 would be a cool trick.:D

It better be in good shape, if I sit on a crappy train for 4 hours and it sucks I am going to be pissed. Maybe I should delay the mothballing of my SDL for a few days, I'd rather drive it up their then his Altima. If we drive.

re the 600 series
 

I was told that the V12 has some pretty expensive periodic maintenance. Anybody have a high mileage one that can chime in?

I'd guess they're expensive to maintain because basically you are maintaining two engines. I've heard the V12 described as two M104 6-cylinder engines: you have 12 spark plugs, two mass air meters, two throttle actuators, etc.