Is it just me or does anybody else out there find this scheme absolutely absurd? Why in the world do we need 1) a computer interface module on the door switch 2) a computer network and its associated protocols and software to transmit the requested function to 3) another computer interface module to receive/decipher the request from the computer module mentioned in #1 and then send the appropriate voltage to activate seat motor? Why is this scheme better than 1) a switch with a wire that sends current directly to the seat motor? Does anybody know if Honda, Toyota or even GM use computer networked components to control a power seat?

I just got off the phone with my father, he is a long term Mercedes-Benz owner but he is fed up with electronic glitches on his 2005 CDI. He is trading it in on a Acura TL and says he will never again buy another Mercedes-Benz product.

I really don't know what Mercedes is up to. My father too was a Mercedes owner and fan who crossed over to Lexus. My mother was a Mercedes owner who crossed over to Acura. I too was a Mercedes owner and Fan who did the ultimate slap to Mercedes by switching over to a Chevy Suburban. If Mercedes doesn't get its act together and get some Japanese on board to help design and make RELIABLE products while still keeping the German feel solidity of the car they will pretty much loose Mercedes customers in the thousands every year although Lexus and Acura won't be complaining while scooping up all these customers and making them very happy with their NOW superior and more reliable products. Product loyalty can only go so far and MB has stretched this trust pretty thin.
I do not believe that I will be buying a new Mercedes now anytime soon until Mercedes gets back to building cars not profits as it did in the past especially in the 70's and 80's. Boy MB put out some great cars back then and those cars REALLY HAD SOME CHARACTER and really did stand out from the crowd. Don't you agree?
Even though MB has gone down the tubes so much, it is still always nice to have a Mercedes. That is why I am looking for a pre-owned one. Oh yeah, it could never be my daily driver because I am sure it would let me down so I will make sure I will have another car at all times while I have a Mercedes in the garage!
I know I have said pretty negative things but even then I love Mercedes. "It's just a Mercedes thaing, you wouldn't understand!, lol"
I hope Mercedes execs are reading these posts........

I still love the way Mercedes-Benz cars look, feel and drive. My 2000 C230 Kompressor is an absolute joy and I look forward to every trip I take in it, short or long.

That said if I didn't have a shop with a lift and about 30K worth of tools I'd never consider owning a newer Mercedes that was outside of the factory warranty period. I can certainly understand why my father (and apparently many others) have decided to switch over to another brand. It's sad.

Count my dad amongst those who have jumped off the MB ship. He has a 2001 E320 Special Ed. It’s special alright. 24k on the odo and the seats are wrinkled and stretched. The AC will blow cold or hot depending on the mood of the car. The Trany is making strange noises when cold. Seat motor went out already. It had the wrong engine mounts in it from the production line (at least that’s what MB said) and the list goes on. I think his car may have been made on a Fri afternoon at quitting time.

He has a hearing in a few weeks with MB and some lawyers. My dad is trying o get MB to buy it back. He bought a 1999 Infinity Q45 at action which he says are out shines the MB. Not as good on gas but at least it is drivable.

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Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Sorry to hear than.

This is EXACTLY why I just traded my E320 in on a brand new Infinity G Series. I dumped thousands of dollars into that car just over the past year and I only put about 5,000 miles on the odometer. Finally, when the transmission began to show signs of failure, I decided to dump it. It was probably the best decision that I've made in years.

The Infinity rides better, handles better, has less road noise and can literally run circles around a Benz in accelleration. Fuel economy is better, there are no squeaks or rattles, the ac blows hard and cold and the AM/FM reception is excellent. Life is good after Mercedes-Benz.

Chris

And in 20 yrs the Infinity will be worthless and there will still be a forum for W210s.

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Kent Christensen
Albuquerque
'07 GL320CDI, '10 CL550. '01 Porsche Boxster
Two BMW motorcycles

I did a search on Ebay for Lexus and Infiniti cars. There are none of them older than 1990. Just wonder if they have been exsiting only since 1990 or older ones simply disappeared.
On the other hand 70's, 80's Merc are still amply around.

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1996 E320 since 1/16/08, 171K miles as of Feb 2011

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1989 300CE - R.I.P. Dec 29 2007
Other MBs (sold): 1992 300E-24 - 1979 350SLC - 1984 230E - 1990 300CE

I think that is about the time they arrived on our shores.

Perhaps a more telling comparison is Benz vs. BMW.

I see lots of old Benzes still running around (I've got a couple of them).

I don't see so many BMWs, however.

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Current Benzes

1989 300TE "Alice"
1990 300CE "Sam Spade"
1991 300CE "Beowulf" RIP (06.1991 - 10.10.2007)
1998 E320 "Orson"
2002 C320 Wagon "Molly Fox"

Res non semper sunt quae esse videntur

My Gallery

Not in this weather!

1990 was the first model year for both Lexus and Infiniti. Acura debuted for the 1986 model year.

Lexus debuted with two models. The magnificent LS400 and the completely forgetable ES250.

Infiniti had the Q45 and something else that even I can't recall. (Anyone, anyone?)

Acura debuted with the Legend (gutsy name for a new brand, that!) and the Integra. I almost purchased an Integra in 1987, but went for a Mustang GT instead. No regrets there.

- JimY

My reaction goes something like this. You invest thousands in your E320, but only drive 5,000 miles a year. Then based on the prospect that there is a tranny problem, you sign up to buy a new car, say $34,000. So now , assuming you are still not driving much, you will lose 1/2 of said $34,000 in say 5 years. That's $16,000 down the rathole. In addition, you get to have a high car payment, interest, and higher car insurance. I suspect it might have been cheaper to fix the transmission.

I admit that the comments in this thread about the V-6 engines croaking at 100K miles put a permanent clamp on any ideas of would have about buying one of those. My MB strategy has been buy 300E's at 100K and drive another 100K+. Just did it again with the '97 S320. I would really be an un-happy camper if my MB engine required a major rebuild at 100K.

Steve

So you disposed of your 11 year old M-B and bought a Datsun with a lot of chrome on it ( that will peel off the plastic in short order ).
Good luck.

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2007 C 230 Sport.

The cost depends on what we find, once the cylinder heads are removed. In most cases, the piston rings are the only "hard parts" that need replacing. In this case, we do the job without removing the engine. We replace the rod bearings as well, since we've got them out, but they're usually in pretty good shape. Depending on mileage, we may also recommend replacing the valve stem seals as a pre-caution. It only adds a couple hundred dollars to an already large bill, but we leave the final decision up to the owner.

Occasionally, we find severe scoring of the cylinder walls. In this case, we replace the engine block, with pre-fitted pistons. The crankshaft and connecting rods are re-used. The rod, main, and thrust bearings must be replaced as well. Before we tear down any M112/113's though, we listen to it carefully. Sometimes, a slight knocking noise can be heard from the engine. It's not very noticeable, but it has a very distinct sound. Once you hear it, it's easily recognizable. This is the tell-tale sound made when the cylinder walls are scored. When we hear this noise, we inspect the cylinders with an articulated borescope. If we find cylinder wall damage, we can give the owner the bad news, but keep the diagnosis cost down.

FWIW, I think the reason you've never heard of this on an M104 is because it's extremely rare for them to have bottom-end problems. I've never seen a 104 engine failure that wasn't caused by over-heating, or oil starvation.


Believe it or not, in many ways networking can actually simplify things, from a diagnostic standpoint, just not for a DIY'er. Networked MB's use only a fraction of the wires that would be needed for a non-networked car to perform the same functions. The various control modules can be accessed via SDS, and the wiring, switches, motors, etc. can be easily checked, without any unnecessary dis-assembly. It also allows MB to keep parts costs down by reducing the number of variants of similar parts. For example, only one PSE locking pump is available for every S/W210 worldwide. It can be programmed for the particular options/equipment at the time of installation. If not for networking, MB would need dozens of part numbers for basically the same part, thereby increasing (at least according to MB) the cost of the part.

I can certainly understand the benefits from a conceptual point of view but it seems to me that by adopting the MB scheme you have increased the complexity of the overall control scheme by at least two orders of magnitude.

As a software person I'm also concerned about the subject of software integration. Many of MB's problems of late seem to me to be eerily similar to defective software issues that many Windows users face on an almost daily basis. While its certainly nice for a tech to be able to test individual networked components via SDS activations how does the tech troubleshoot highly intermittent problems that are most likely caused by software glitches? In the case of my fathers car he had many electrical glitches and when he took it into the dealer they would invariably report "every things fine - no problems that we can see"

I've also been following a thread where Steve B points out that there are some failures of interior components that can actually "short out" the entire interior CAN. In such a case NOTHING driven by the interior CAN will work. Very nice.

I'm still curious to know if ANY other automotive manufacturer has adopted the Mercedes-Benz "Hey, lets control the cigarette lighter via a computer network" school of design. Do you know if anyone else does it this way?

Thanks, very helpful. Can you put a dollar range on it - best case to worst case - just curious.