Stranded!!!!!!
 

Well kinda, I was leaving my parents house today and my car started but I kind of noticed a hesitation... so then i started it up right after, I go to the gas station turn the car off and bam it wont start. So I kept trying to start it after every few mins, the buzzing noise would come on, but wouldnt turn over at all nothing, no hesitation or anything.

I waited about 15 mins and tried it again and I was lucky and it started I drove it right back to my parents house and turned it off... I tried to start it up again and nothing. All lights seem to work fine, all power works good, no problems before this.

I have a 92 sel 600. What could be the problem.


Edit: I just looked under the hood and dont notice anything crazy, but I did notice that im about at the halfway mark on my oil dipstick I heard some crazy things about oil levels but I'm pretty sure this has nothing to do with it right? Any advice would be great.

I would first suspect the battery, next its electrical connections.

Will, check the condition/length of the voltage regulator brushes ... 2 screws secure the voltage regulator to the back of the alternator.

Could try to start in Neutral next time it wont crank.

If it starts up then, its the NSS.

Check the NSS by starting in neutral. If that solves it, then thats what needs to be fixed. Had the same problem in the SL, wouldnt start, and magically, it would start again. Bad contact in the switch, cleaned the safety switches, problem solved!

different car but same problem..i know when my SD's NSS went..i couldnt start it in any gear..i had to turn the key on and bump the starter...

Quick update. I was able to start it up by pushing the key into the ignition harder. I tried to do that again when starting it and nothing. I will try to start it in neutral and update you guys. I also had my friend try to start it so I could try to hear anything... I hear almost a click noise up by the top of the engine and would almost go down to where the oil fill cap and fan are. Don tknow if this has anything to do with it.

Just try to start it in neutral and nothing. I dont know to much about mercedes but from past experience when a car wouldnt start and then start sometimes meant the starter was bad or going out.

I'm kind of hoping this isnt it but I figure it probably is?


Anyone know how much a starter for a 92 mercedes sel 600 cost? and is it normally about and hour or so of labor like other starters?

It seems like I'm in a bad situation. I can't figure out how to start the car. I'm assuming its the starter, there is no way that I can tow it from my house to the shop that I go to. Basically the only shop I trust my car to be at and really like because its about 45 miles away from where the car is.

Is there anyway to tap the starter on a mercedes? I know in my camaro I can do it easily but is there an easy way to do this on a mercedes because I have no idea. All I need to do is if I can't fix the problem at least get the car started and drive it to the shop.

So I'm assuming its the starter, advice on taping the starter? Or even maybe it's not the starter and maybe something else you guys think?

This is assuming that your problem is cranking the motor, not getting the motor to fire. Frequently people will say "my car won't start" - which is too vague to know what is really the problem. If when the key is turned, the motor doesn't rotate (crank), then the car 'won't crank'. When the key is turned if the motor cranks but won't start, then the car 'won't fire'.

I think from your descriptions, the car 'won't crank'.

There are several items that can cause these problems:
Low battery
Starter motor
Starter solenoid

If the battery is low, when you attempt to crank the engine, you exhaust the capacity of the battery. Since a battery makes electricity by chemical reaction, allowing it to sit briefly after this effort can result in enough recovery to permit a start.

Starters that are on their last legs sometimes start the motor fine when cold, but have trouble when hot. You can tell if the starter is "trying" to crank the motor by seeing what happens when you crank the motor with the headlamps on. (Assuming MB doesn't switch off the headlamps when you crank - I've never tried it.) If the lamps start out nice and bright and dim noticeably when cranking, then return to full brightness when the cranking stops, then it's likely the starter.

Starter solenoids that fail usually result in a starter motor that just goes "click" as you turn the key to the crank position. The test above will show no difference in the headlamp brightness if the solenoid is the cause. (No current passing to the starter, so no draw on the battery).

I'd start with a fully charged battery first. Some people have had baaad luck in jump-starting their MB's, so I'd try getting the battery charged first. Most major autoparts stores will test your battery for free - if it's too low to be tested, they'll charge it first and then test it. That will eliminate the battery from the list of possible failures.

Plus, changing a battery on a V12 MB is the same as on a I6 - it's the same battery, and it's in the trunk. Changing the starter is probably a whole other kettle of fish.

Hey brian thanks for the post I defnitely notice you always giving good advice on my posts and appreciate it.

The lights and everything worked fine. When I would start the car nothing would dim at all, all the gauges and lights were working fine. I'm pretty sure its probably the starter, not sure if it's the complete starter or the solenoid. Probably sounds like the solenoid from the stuff I read.

2 questions. Where is the battery? I k now its in the trunk but where the hell is it, I have still yet to see it since having the car?

Number two is there a way to tap the starter like on other cars? If so I never been under my car yet I'm assuming the starter is probably underneath the passenger side? Is there a specific way to tap the starter on a mercedes or anything special?


I appreciate the help, I just need to get the car started one more time so i can drive it to the mechanic thats about 40 miles away and leave it there.

Yes the starter is in a normal location, but MB decided to put a shield under the engine. You will find out a starter is not cheap, the battery is under the carpet passenger side trunk, wheel well.
You are not going to be able to check the alternator it is really buried, I hate to say so see if there is a Mb dealer that can pull some codes. If it had no power it could be limp home, bad ign switch will cause no start, solenoid maybe, you got to get there by elimination. Here is some good reading
http://v12uberalles.com/

It definitely didnt limp home. It was weird it was just all of a sudden no warning. Wouldnt start waited 15 mins or so started thought it was fine then, drove it home turned it off, tried to start it, nothing, next day tried to start it nothing.

My only problem is trying to get it started one more time ( if its the starter) so i can drive it to the shop so I'm hoping theres a way to tap the starter to get it to start.

do you ever get your hands dirty?

you seem clueless.

sorry to be so crass....but in order to have a car with that level of sophistication , you have to have a little bit of background.

i would love to have one of those, but don't understand them and can't afford them.

Yes, and no. I'm very good with chevy's thats all I ever had basically and still have my 70 camaro. But this is my first mercedes and its so much different from a small block 350. I love the car but havent figured out on working on it yet. But I guess the only good thing is that I only had it for a half a year or so so I got time to figure out some stuff. I guess.

Im going to try to tap the starter tomorrow and get it out of there.

I'd be prepared to jump it before towing it.

Sounds more like a bad battery or ground as Matt mentioned long ago.

Maybe your accident knocked a ground loose.

My accident? I never had an accident. And the stereo the headlights. the gauges and lights all come on no problem even when turning the key they never dim. But I guess I can try to jump it before.

But I think maybe your confusing me with someone else? Because I never mentioned an accident or ever had one?

Took the car to the shop, got a call back from the mechanic later today and he tell's me it;s NOT the starter. I guess he tested the starter and its not the problem, but then tell's me he's pretty sure its the vaccum pump that controls the locks.

When he said that it made sense because if you read a previous post of mine, my door locks were working using the remote and i couldn't use the key to lock or unlock my drivers door. So this made sense when he told me this.

My only question is... is it true that the vaccum pump c an prevent the car from starting? I read a lot about the pump but never saw where it affected the car to not start?? Any ideas?


Also does anyone know a rough estiate on how many hours it would take a shop to change the pump, because he told me the pump runs 400-500 bucks but i forgot to ask him how many hours of labor that would take?


Thanks in advance.

Sorry Will, you're right. I was confusing you with another member with a white W140 who had a minor fender bender.

No problem. I got kind of worried and thought u might known something I didnt hahahaa.

I'm hoping this vaccum pump will solve the door locks/remote problem and EVEN start the car.

92 600SEL did not have starter lock-out by security alarm or the pump. Only 93 and up had it. 92 circuit is very simple: ignition switch to NSS to starter solenoid to ground. I'd check braided ground cable from car body to the engine first. Then NSS and ignition switch.

Hmmm, the mechanic said that he thought it would be from the central locking system then mentioned the pump? I;m pretty sure the pump went bad or something when the locks wouldnt work with the key anymore.

But it sounds like he's saying this is whats preventing my car from starting?

Cuz as soon as he mentioned the vaccum pump and everything it made sense, especially when he said he tested the starter and it wasnt the starter. So I figured somehow that pump can control the car not to start?

Because if this has nothing to do with the car starting then I wont worry about it until after it gets back on the road and I can take it to my regular mechanic.

Something to keep in mind. A tow truck to your trusted mechanic is cheaper than having a $600 part replaced only to find out it did not solve your problem. Additionally might I point out the danger of leaving a 140 Chassis S600 parked anywhere disabled and unattended. The car is worth much more in parts than it is a whole car. They get about $500 a piece for used double paned side glass. Not to mention why someone might want your "full leather" interior. Call a tow. In the grand scheme of things its really cheap. Additionally AAA will give you 100 miles of free towing on a service call.

I second this sentiment.

A V12-powered W140 is the WRONG CAR to have a mechanic throw parts at in hopes of solving a problem.

Have it towed to someone familiar w/ these cars and you will save much money and more headaches.

I got it towed. its an all mercedes shop ( the guy is german to) and everyone that's been there that i know liked him and liked his work.

But I dont know either way, and havent been able to find an answer would the vacum pump or the central locking problem cause the car not to start?

If the vacuum pump ran until the battery died. When you turned the key did you hear a click?

When I turned the key you couldnt hear anything inside. But you could hear like a series of two clicks I believe it was from uptop of th eengine and then it running down by the fan at the bottom of the engine.

The battery is good though, he even said that the lights and gauges all wouldnt of came on if the battery was dead. And also said the car wouldnt of started the 3 or 4 times after it had this problem from the begining.

Im just trying to figure out if it's possible that the car wont start due to the central locking system. I cant find anything on that but it sounds like that is the reason.

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

I am not familer with the W140, but on the W126 which isn't all that unlike your car the trunk vacuum pump is on its own system. Other then draining the battery I fail to see how one would prevent the car from starting. Unless on the W140 its somehow related to the alarm system.


If your battery is dead the lights will still come on inside the car, usualy the radio will as well. The starter draws a lot of load, a lot more then anything else on the car.

Turning the key and hearing a click is usualy a dead give away for either a dead battery or, a bad starter solinod.

Yea i figured the clickin was a starter or a battery, but once the car started up after this problem how could it be the battery? Then after that he said he tested the starter and it was fine.

Then he mentioned the central locking system and said he believed thats what was preventing it from starting.

Everything i hear he is a good mechanic so he knows what he's talking about.
But I would say the battery isnt out because after this problem it still started 3 times after that. So if it was the battery it couldnt of started after this problem, then not again, again 2 more times.

Then when he told me its not the starter I was like hmmm ok. But it made sense because my remote wouldnt lock my doors for the past month or so, and I was unable to unlock or lock the drivers side door with the key. So when out of the blue he mentions the central locking system it made sense.

But it doesn't seem likely this would prevent the car from starting?

???

Update, the mechanic called me up and still hasnt been able to get a pump for the car yet, b ut he said he should be able to tomorrow.

Then he m entioned that the pump has to be changed for sure because it's not locking or unlocking the doors. He also fixed the drivers side door lock which wouldnt open up with the key.

Now he says the nss and the starter are fine no problem with that. And also said that he noticed that the c ar has a new transmission. A factory transmission to. So I guess thats good.

Next he said if the pump isnt whats causing the car to start, then it most likely is the igntion switch or the starter relay switch I believe he called it?

But he said that starter relay swictch is burried deep in the dash I believe?

It sounded like if it's not the pump the best case scenario would be the ignition switch??? Can anyone tell me if its easier/cheaper to change the ignition switch or the starter relay swtich?

And also what would the price of either one of those run me with parts and labor?

Thanks.

What's with the "IF"? Is the pump the cause or isn't it? He should only be replacing it IF it is the cause. Otherwise, he is replacing a part unnecessarily, at cost to you. Once a mechanic starts throwing parts at a problem, the repair bill starts to climb exponentially. Of course if you're okay with that then that's your decision.

Well maybe I wasnt clear enough that was probably my bad on my part. But the pump for sure is bad, it needs to be replaced no matter what because it wont lock the doors with the remote so I know the pump is bad, but the only question he has is if the pump is also the problem on not starting the car.

It's not an issue of weather or not the pump needs to be replaced because I knew before this that it did need to be replaced. The only question now is weather the pump is causing the car not to start also.

I dont believe a pump failure in the central locking system is the only way the system can malfunction. I would check this before having the pump swapped out.

If I were you I would take this car to a highly reputable Mercedes-Benz only mechanic such as Enrique. If you want the best MBZ master tech in California you need to go to Enrique. His shop is called Mr. MB Motors and its on Reseda Blvd. in the San Fernanado Valley in Los Angeles.

The issue you're having with starting must be first checked by checking the codes. Did you see your tech do this? Were you standing there while he checked the codes?

I would not leave your 12 cylinder sedan in anyone's shop. Just my opinion.

BTW, I was at Enrique's the other day and met a guy with the same car. Midnight blue 1992 V12. And of course Enrique is the only mechanic that works on it.

Jason

All of that is indeed true. I have heard the same about Enrique and MR.MB. Motors, and am thinking about a trip down there, even though it is 600 or more miles away. It'd be worth it to get a complex problem resolved properly.
And I would get to meet Ernesto (BENZ-LGB) for lunch as we'd discussed, and maybe other MB Shop friends down there.

It would be a small vacation, I guess. But he is highly acclaimed by the members in the Los Angeles area, as competent, and very very fair.

I would have to call him first, and try to find a hotel nearby I guess, rent a car maybe. He gets customers from far away, even Idaho and Texas I believe. The MBshop members honored him with a special plaque.

Hmm thats a good point, what codes did he pull?

I dont know. He said he was going to try a pump today I believe He will give me a call I guess when he figures out exactly whats wrong or has new info. I think he's closed til monday. I will definitely keep you guys posted.

still no updates as of yet.

well its been a full week and up til now I dont know whats up, I left him a message after work yesterday but he hasnt got back to me today.

I'm starting to get a little concerned now.

Why didn't you take the car to the mechanic you know/trust to begin with?

The only reason I couldnt do that, was because the mechanic that I go to is about 45/50 miles away from me, which isnt the problem. The problem was my car wouldnt start. And I have no idea how much a tow that far would cost Im sure hundreds of dollars.

Im still hoping everything works out.

just a few mins after posting that I got a call from the mechanic. He put a new vacum pump in the car and now the locking system is working which is good.

But it didnt make the car start so a little later today he said he is going to try a ignition switch that he has to see if thats the problem.

So hopefully I figure out if it is or isnt the switch, so I'm at least down a vacum pump now as far as money goes.


Oh by the way he said when he lifted the rear seat he said that there might be a mouse that lives in there and has caused the problem. I think he mentioned that he seen some chewed through plastic or other material and is wondering if a mouse caused some damage. Wierd.

I will be so damn mad if a little damn mouse messed up my car. Damn rodent.

So the mechanic called and told me good news and bad news. Bad news it's the fuel pump also. GOod news he figured out the problems and it should be done by friday.

So Im in the hole for... new vaccum pump... ignition switch... and
2 fuel pumps... He said he charged me his own list price for what he gets parts for. He also said that it looked like one of the fuel pumps was out I think he said, and that this one is out.


Total looks like $1,400, pretty pricey.. Im just so happy to finally know whats going on with my car.


My question is how expensive or not expensive does this price sound? This is my first time having to deal with an issue with my mercedes. To me it sounds fairly reasonable. But people that have previous simliar issues does this price sound fair?

It sounds like he was trouble shooting on your dime.

Hmmm, could be. But I KNOW the pump was bad so I give him that, so it comes down to the ignition switch and the fuel pumps.

I don't know you could be right not sure.

you really need to sell that car and get a 300e or a 190e.

that is...unless you have a big trust fund.

I know I will catch some heat for saying this. But this is the first mercedes... always been into muscle cars. Don't get on me to bad but I only like the w140 body style ( only the big body s class also) from like 92-97 and since I like muscle cars I got to have the v8 or bigger. So it pretty much narrows mercedes down w140 and either a 420, 500 or 600.


so if I sold this car I wouldn't get back into a mercedes since I'm very picky on mercedes that I like.

No one is "getting on you." You asked for advice and you are getting it from a group of people who by and large know these cars inside and out.

Just because the response is not what you want to hear does not mean that anyone is giving you heat.

It is simply a fact that you're driving a car that was sold when new as a cost-no-object car. The maintenance and repair items are in line with such a car. You need to understand that your car is:

1. Without question the single most complicated car that Mercedes ever sold.

2. Also without question one of the most enjoyable cars to drive that Mercedes has ever sold.

You gotta pay to play, nowhere is this more true than in a V12-powered W140.