I am not sure how realible the 220 is...as I have not known anyone who had owned theirs for several years

I do agree that right off the bat the 140 appears to be a more sturdy/well built car...however...BULLETPROOF?...by no stretch of imagination is that the case...my persona car that was sold after 5 years of ownership had over $20,000 worth of warranty work done during the time I owned it
If you want to hear some EXTREMLY frustrated owners...go to your local benz dealer and take a survey of the 140 owners,many of which have cars that are out of warranty, ...and see what they have to say about ..evap cores, window regulators,climate control shot off valves, closing assist pumps, suspension issues..etc..etc


Warren
2000 BMW 740i/w full sports package
1992 MB 300SD(sold)
Colombus Ohio

Errr... Mr... I won't even go into the main body of your post as this topic is something that no group of people here will ever see eye to eye on (check out how many pages it has accumulated so far), but I'll tell you this: it has always been Mercedes tradition that the hood stars are reserved for sedans only and the grill star for coupes. So get your facts straight please.

Hey have you ever seen a CLS??

Buddy you should get your facts straight

CLS is, of course, a coupe albeit one with 4 doors. That is what the C stands for: coupe; the L is for Luxus (maybe Lang); and the S is for Sports.

I think it is more accurate to state that the hood ornament is reserved for sedans (saloons) and limousines. All others have the grille badge (trucks, busses, off-roaders, sports cars and utility vehicles).

Not so sure that it's possible to have a coupe with 4 doors but I get what they are trying to achieve here. By definition a coupe is a car with a fixed roof and two doors. You are right that the L stands for Luxus, the S though in Mercedes speak, usually means Spitzenklasse, or the pinnacle. The hood ornament may also remember though be found on a W124 cabriolet so it's hard to pin down what they are doing here.
Tell you what though whatever Mercedes are doing they are doing it wrong, damned shame too. Remember the days when trim level badges used to things that were only found on cheaper cars, now we have avantgarde etc. etc.
As for the Stuttgart boys cheapening things up, I've just upgraded from an '89 420SEC to a '96 CL500. The W126 was good but the W140 is just plain brilliant. On the other hand my father has upgraded too but he went for a '98 W210 after owning an '84 230E. Although the later model was faster, and handled better and was also more refined, I was astounded by the feeling of how much more solid the earlier car felt.

People always rant about how cars "feel" but they forget that the human being's feelings are very limited. Just about 100% of those who have driven both a W140 and a W220 will say the W140 feels more solid, when Mercedes engineers released specs showing the W220 to be more rigid in all ways and crash tests have shown that it out performs the W140 in all crash tests. I think people confuse "weight" for a "solidity." A heavier car isn't always more solid / rigid than a lighter one as we all know.

From Mercedes-Benz's own description of their car:

The CLS-Class Coupe
Unrivalled and Outstanding
A completely unique vehicle concept generated by a powerful new vision. The CLS-Class – the first four-door coupé from Mercedes – combines the dynamism of a coupé with the luxury and practicality of a saloon. Now you can get your pulse racing, and still have space for four adults and their luggage.

Of course, the four-door coupe is not unique: think Rover P5B coupe. The term "coupe" is derived from the word "cut"; a coupe traditionally was a cut down carriage. I think it can be applied to any fixed head sporting car with a low roof line. As for "S", in "S-Klasse" it is indeed for Spitzen, but then in "SL-Klasse" it is now for Sports and once upon a time was for Super. It is unlikely to be for "Spitzen" in the CLS because that car sits beneath the CL which is, of course, the coupe S-Class.

Merecdes' nomenklature, like its build quality, has gone to pot!

This is all off-topic, though.

I guess I don't understand why most on this post are bashing the 220...I think for the price its a great car...actually a less expensive car(factored for inflation) than the 140 was.
And having owned a 140 for several years at one point in my life..I can tell you they were no gems int erms of reliability and costs associated with repair.
I have test driven a couple of 220's and they drive great..great ride..great handling..does it have the "heavy" feel of 140..no...however I took curves in the 220 that would have run from.
And I saw something in a publication about the amount of lease business that both MB and BMW do on that type of car...and the figure is 60-75%.
So basically you have a car that most people want to drive for 36 months ,with no maintenance then turn it back in. Then the car is certified and sold again. After the car is sold to the second owner and gets more than 6-7 years old I think the manufacturer cares a lot less about the car.
I think the person that bought the S Class 20 years ago and kept it for 10-12 years is a rare specimen anymore

my .002

Warren
2000 BMW 740/with full sport package
1992 300SD(sold)
Columbus Ohio

In Latin America and most countries were taxes are stupidly high (80% and above -this means that a US$95,000 W140 costed new over US$170,000!-) most S-class owners had this tendency: they would buy a car into the first two years of production and then wait until the new body would come out to change it.

Hence, most W116, W126 and W140 owners kept their cars for periods of about ten years. In many cases I know of, the owners have kept their original S-class as a second car and have additionally bought the new series.

The W220 (with a shorter life cycle) and the new leasing contracts have changed somewhat this trend.

By the way, the CLS is completely based on the current E-class and not the CL coupe. Just the sheetmetal, interior fittings and some minor tweaks to the suspension and electronics were done. A CLS 500 is basically an E 500, and a CLS 350 is an E 350.

The CLS does not have the standing star on the hood due to the publicity stunt pulled by Mercedes-Benz for letting fools believe is a four-door coupe, which basically is a contradictory term.

"ONLY TIME WILL TELL!"

I guess same as with politics, wars and love.

The all new W221 S-class is out and most, if not all car magazines, M.B. owners and fans do agree on one simple fact:

"The new W221 recaptures the former W140's size, quality and feel."

Please notice that the quote does NOT mention the W220!

It is impressive of how everyone openly blames the W220 for its lack of presence, quality and soul. The W220 could have been a sales success history, but it definitely lost its North in relation to what an S-class should be.

The only thing we need to do now is sit down, let time pass and see if the W221 really is up to W140 and former S-class standards.

Car magazines... general opinion... rubbish! Especially when the people dishing out their opinions will never afford the cars they are rumbling about, even after the cars are 10 years old!!

Funny how many listers on here have said MANY negative things about the 140.....so in that regard maybe the standard ( for the 220)was not that much to live up to.
As a former owner of a 140 for many years...I can say the car was an absolute marvel of machinery,,,,,however WAY too many petty breakdown issues and WAY too expensive to repair.About $20,000 worth of warranty work when I owned mine
If you have looked at any for sale lately I think the resale value reflects the questionable budget it takes to keep one at 100%



Warren
1992 300SD(sold)
2000 BMW 740I
Columbus Ohio

I've been shocked several times by outrageous warranty claims made by people who bought W140 cars new. Yours was $20,000 on a 350SD (1992), another guy had $15,000 on a 300SE (1992) and another guy said he had $32,000 worth of claims on his 400SEL(1993).

Can you list some of the items that were included in your huge warranty claims? I'm just very curious.

I didn't buy the car new...it was 6 years old when I bought it and one owner car that had serviced at the NJ dealership for the most part where it was bought originally.
I bought a 2 year 30,000 warranty with the car.

Warranty claims included

Evaporator core and replcement of climate control push button unit $5100.00
( I was told this was a common repair)
Closing assist pump $800.00
(I was told this was a common repair)
Alternator $850.00
Complete engine long block replacement $13,800.00
( I was told this was a common repair on 3.5 liter diesel)
Various front end parts $1,100.00
( I was told this was a common repair)
tranmission gasket and rear window regulator $650.00
( I was told this was a common repair)

All work done at my local Mercedes dealer

there was also some other stuff that I paid myself...such as repair of the 10 disc Becker CD changer and replecement of the Bose amplifier


Warren
1992 300SD(sold)
2000 BMW 740I
Columbus Ohio