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#46
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Tool
The tool for removing the cylinder needs to have a bevel on it. I used a piece of metal coat hanger and filed a nice long bevel. A bike spoke might be too hard to file, but a grinder would probably work.
When you insert the tool, the straight side (without bevel) should be flat against the cylinder and the beveled side away from it, that way the point can get behind the retainer clip and open it up. If you don't have the correct bevel, you won't be able to insert the tool past the clip. |
#47
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really, that's a chronic problem then eh? On our 1990 300TE the damn original key stopped working for apparently no reason, doors, hatch and ignition, just stopped working. Went and got a new key from the dealer (took a week) and it's fine. I have looked at the original key (doesn't work) and the new key (works fine) and I swear, I cannot see the difference. The cool thing was the dealership was doing inventory or something and somehow felt we had paid for the new key, when in fact, we hadn't. Gotta be honest, we didn't say **** and walked out....I can still compare the non-working key to the working key and I cannot see any visible difference...I swear, I can't.....
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#48
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I think I am fighting a losing battle.
My son and his friend had lost my key so I went to the dealership and they cut me an original. Tried the original and it didn't work. Probably due to wear and tear of the tumbler. Anyway, I never tried the sander method and bit the bullet and used a screw driver to snap the tumbler (to what I think is in position 1 now). So now I cannot go back. I will try filing a longer point on the bike spokes and have them positioned facing away from the tumbler and towards the collar. Not an easy fit which makes me think that I have not aligned the tumbler correctly to position 1. I used a paper clip as it is smaller just to see how deep I could go and then when I did go as far as I could, didn't 'feel' any thing moveable. Also, while I am pressing down along the sides of the tumbler, should I be doing something to the collar? Turning it, prising it away from the shaft? |
#49
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update
I decided to separate the tool I had made into 2. This way I can work at least one hole at a time.
I 'think' I am getting through to the end but I have seen postings saying that i need to go down to the end of the collar. I am getting down to about 3/4 inch. Or is this where the latch is and hence why i can't get any further? What I have also noticed is that if I place one one the tools into 1 hole, I cannot fit the other tool in the other hole.. I use a paper clip on the second hole just to make sure I am lined up correctly, and the paper clip goes in as far as the other tool in the first hole. So I know that I am aligned. I made my tool from a bike spoke, shaved it into a nice angle, even shaved a bit off the shaft so it could go into the 2nd hole - but alas it will not. It seems as though placing the tool in the first hole has caused the tumbler to push against the collar directly opposite - where the other hole is. I have seen some photos of the tumbler and collar out, but does anyone have any pictures to show me what the latch looks like so I can see what I am dealing with when it comes to trying to dislodge it. Finally, could I use a hacksaw and cut my way through the collar (half way up) so then i could get a better picture of what i am looking at. I feel that even after WD-40 it may be that the latches are just stuck (after 20+ years)?? |
#50
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still at it....
Been doing some more reading and wiggling....
If I put one of the tools into the hole, it seems to tighten the tumbler inside the collar - because i then cannot get the other tool into the other hole. I am only able to get a safety pin into the second hole. Has anyone had this before? Also, because I had to pry the key hole to position 1 with a screwdriver, I am now able to freely rotate the front part of the keyhole. If i look into the barrel, it doesn't move. So if I did have the key and moved it to pos 1, the whole tumbler would rotate - not just the front part. I am starting to think that snapping the front part of the key hole and aligning to position 1 has been a redherring and because the whole tumbler is not in position 1, the latches will never dislodge. Can someone confirm or deny this.? Thanks all for your comments as well. |
#51
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Quote:
__________________
-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life- '15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800) '17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k) '09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k) '13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k) '01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km) '16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k) |
#52
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Important Update!
I'm sorry, but I described the taper incorrectly in my last post.
The taper must be on the cylinder side so as you slide in the tool, it pushes it compresses the spring retainer. I'm looking at the tool I used on my '88 260e. Another thing to note is that although there are two holes for the tool to enter, only one has a retainer spring, the other hole doesn't seem to do anything. The depth of the retainer spring from the face of the silver key slot is 1-inch. My suggestion is to make a u-shaped tool from a coat hanger with 4-inch long legs spaced 1-inch apart. bevel the inside tips with 1/4-inch tapers. The tool should insert a little over an inch deep, then squeeze the two legs together to help compress the retainer. The trick is that you also need to pull outward on the cylinder while squeezing the tool. Hope this helps. |
#53
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I still am unable to fit into both holes the tool at the same time.
As I said in my previous post, if I insert the tool into one of the holes, it seems to push the tumbler against the collar and thus reducing the gap on the opposite hole for me to insert the other part of the tool. I am still not clear on the detailed steps of what to do when I have inserted the tool (into the slot that has the latch - which one is that?) Do I try to leve the tumbler forward while trying to untwist the tumbler? At worst, can I drill the tumbler out? |
#54
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Hold the presses...
Okay, after more reading, trying something else, then more reading and trying something else again, I figured out that I had the bloody position in 0 not 1.
I read some post about the hole being at the 2 o'clock position. So now that I am pretty sure I have the holes aligned, I am now able to insert the tool into both holes at the same time.. good so far. However, now that I WD-40'd it to death, I still can't manage to catch the latch - or at least I don't think I am. I have looked at tumbler pictures but still cant find any that show close up the latch itself. Would like to see what I am trying to dislodge. Question: It's a 300E 1985 model and I have a feeling that this tumbler only has one latch - even though it has 2 holes. (Can someone confirm this). What I would like to know is, if and when I manage to dislodge the latch, what should I do? Do I try to pry the tumbler out through the collar or do I pry the tumbler out and at the same time try to unscrew the collar? What should the sequence of events be ? |
#55
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Anyone... please...
Still trying but to no avail.
My wires are now going down about 1 and 3/4 inches into the holes. I have used separate wires because I don't know why they have to be attached. It makes it easier to jiggle each one individually. So if i have gone down this far, do I assume i have passed the latches. Do I need to go further and depress something else? Do I need |
#56
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I didn't finish my post.
Most importantly do I need to release, break something else????? In the earlier post there was something about chiseling out the part to allow the collar to rotate... where is this piece and what is the impact if i do this when i need to replace it later? ****, I am effen frustrated. Again, I have a 1985 300E. I assume that the holes are at 2:00pm and 7pm approx. Do I need to depress the latches at the same time. |
#57
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Screwdriver action
I've this horrible premonition that all you did was "Break" the front of the tumbler.
(and you're gonna have to "Take the Road Less Traveled"...Removing the Whole steering lock tube to be able to get to the Ignition Tumbler AND replacing the SLT and the Tumbler) You should press BOTH the "Legs" of the tool together to help push the detents. AND press them towards each other. Somewhere in the archives are instructions from one of the Ozzie members,who ended up removing the "Guts" (spring and locking bolt) from his SLT ...then his tumbler didn't have to "Throw" or "Retract"that 1Lb bolt every time the key was pulled out or inserted. I believe the reference was to using a "chisel-like" hand tool to force the collar to turn(NOT the recommended approach).I think if the detents will not release with the angle ended u-shaped tool...you'd destroy the car trying to turn the collar by force.That collar is made of some materiel from another Galaxy,It is the toughest piece of Metal I've ever run across.
__________________
'84 300SD sold 124.128 Last edited by compress ignite; 03-15-2009 at 02:55 AM. |
#58
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more info on tumbler issues
I just replaced the tumbler on my 91 300TE. Mine was very worn but I was able to have the key in position 1, the tumbler popped right out, and the new one turned right in. Lucky me.
I read some threads before doing the job, so here is some info stuckon1st was asking about that might help somebody else in the future. The release wires go in to the holes at 2 and 7 o’clock about 45mm or 1 ¾ inches. They must go in at the same time, which is why the tool is made in a U shape. The 60 degree bevels on the wire ends do face in towards the tumbler. The 2 o’clock hole presses a spring which keeps the tumbler aligned, but does really hold it in. The metal collar holds it in. The metal collar has a ridge on it’s lower inside which clips it in place. It does not turn nor can it be unscrewed. The wire at both 2 and 7 o’clock press into detents in the switch/lock assembly which release the collar- BOTH wires have to press those slots at the same time to release the collar! If the tumbler is completely immobile, it cannot be drilled out like USA cars. That outer lip on the metal collar is about 4-5 mm (about 1/8”) that securely holds that tumbler in- that’s the anti theft design. In the worse case scenario, I would use a dremo moto tool with carbide wheels and small drill bits to remove as much of the metal collar outer lip as it surrounds the tumbler face, again about 5mm or 1/8”. With that lip gone, the tumbler could be yanked out with the slide hammer. Then there would be access to the two detents in the switch/lock assembly that when pressed would release the rest of the metal collar. Hope this helps somebody later. |
#59
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Key wont turn, the Mark2590 method
I'm writing this to help future readers in there attempt to replace there ignition lock cylinder. Mine was on a W124. Others might be different.
The post I'm quoting is the single most informative post I read on the topic, read it first then read what I added at the bottom. Quote:
1. I found that it's true that your first goal is to remove the black collar. Forget about the lock cylinder! You'll get it out easy once the collar is off. 2. You truly can turn the silver colored disc the key goes into without turning the whole lock cylinder and it doesn't ruin it. There is a small roll pin that holds it in place. You can insert a large screw driver SLIGHTLY into the key slot and twist it with a good amount of force and it will sheer the roll pin. 3. I used TWO pins made from a coat hanger to release the collar. The type of hanger I used was the kind that has the cardboard tube. They are a little smaller than a standard wire coat hanger. I put about a 45 degree angle on the one end and I used a hammer to gentle tap it all the way in. 4. I didn't find it necessary to turn the black collar or even pull on it. 5. You do need to pry the collar off at it's base. I used a wood chisel and a hammer. First I taped it straight in until there was a bit of a gap, then I held the chisel at an angle and taped the collar off. Note, With the lock cylinder NOT turned to the 1 position the cylinder wont come off easily. There are two small recesses at the bottom of the lock cylinder that will NOT be in the right place to allow the two levers that keep the cylinder from coming off to descend into the base. ALSO! I did this without removing the ignition lock cylinder housing from the car. Last edited by William73; 02-07-2010 at 02:08 PM. Reason: Adding info |
#60
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souber tools mercedes lock cutter
http://www.michaelhyde.com/product_p/mb-cutter-tool-c.htm
$169.00 If you can't get the key to position number 1.
__________________
'84 300SD sold 124.128 |
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