Help!!!!!! Ideas Why It Does Not Start

[cheapold280ce]

I am back to square -1 with my cheapold 280CE euro.

Engine is a M110.984

Problem it does not start. I mean it will not fire or even run for a short time if I put gas or ether or both down the intake.

Was running before, then started running bad and does does not even run.

What are the possible reasons???

heres what I thought of.

Ignition control module ( I have visual fire at across spark plug and a dwell of 30 degrees when cranking with engine)

Some gear on timing chain has jump a tooth ot two. I get no chain noises and distributor is turning round and oil pressure is buliding.

Any other reason??

where do i go from here??

[ctaylor738]

Weird. Some ideas:

Can you check the timing while someone cranks the starter? You should see something around TDC on #1.

What do the spark plugs look like? If you soaked them with raw gas, they may not be firing.

If it ran OK and then went south, that's usually something in the fuel system, either too much gas or not enough gas getting to the cylinders. Can you check fuel pressure?

[cheapold280ce]

Originally Posted by ctaylor738

Weird. Some ideas:

Can you check the timing while someone cranks the starter? You should see something around TDC on #1.

What do the spark plugs look like? If you soaked them with raw gas, they may not be firing.

If it ran OK and then went south, that's usually something in the fuel system, either too much gas or not enough gas getting to the cylinders. Can you check fuel pressure?

I checked timing while cranking engine didn't see anything at pointer. So I have placed engine at TDC I am either right on TDC or 180 degrees off. SO I am going to pull NUMBER #1 and put a compression guage on it and make sure I get engine true TDC and then check cam markings.

I have been fighting fuel problem on this car since I got it. replaced fuel pump, fuel filter, gas tank, fuel distributor, and return line. Car was last running well but very rich my return line was clogged ren new hose bypassing clog. I think I might have overeved motor when trying to adjust air fuel mixture. I just replaced the fuel distributor but it didn't make any difference. The main thing now is I can't get it to run even with just ether in intake manifold. When before I corrected all the fuel problems if I put gas in intake it would fire right up and run for a short while it does not do that anymore.

Got another control module on way but don't think that's the problem since I have spark and my dwell when cranking is right at 30 degrees.

I may have fuel problem but I need engine to run on ether first before I can even think of correcting a fuel problem don't you think so. I can check fuel pressures I did was getting enouht pressure at injectors and control pressure was low .5 bar then climbed as I cranked engine.

[ctaylor738]

Well, obviously you need spark at the right time, so that's the first thing to get sorted out.

You don't need the engine running to check pressure.

Connect the gauge between the FD and the WUR, and disconnect the warm-up regulator. Pull the connector to the safety switch off the FD (if there is one), or bridge 30 to 87 on the fuel pump relay socket. Look for 5.6 bar system pressure, and 1.0-1.4 control pressure. Crack a fitting or two on the FD and see if you get some fuel. If not, turn the mixture screw clockwise until you see fuel start to come out.

Then reconnect wires to the WUR and you should see the control pressure come up to 3.4-3.8 bars in a couple of minutes.

If you are getting these values, and spark, the car should at least start and run. Leave the gauge on to see what happens to CP while it's running.

If you don't see these values, you need to find out why.

[cheapold280ce]

Originally Posted by ctaylor738

Well, obviously you need spark at the right time, so that's the first thing to get sorted out.

You don't need the engine running to check pressure.

Connect the gauge between the FD and the WUR, and disconnect the warm-up regulator. Pull the connector to the safety switch off the FD (if there is one), or bridge 30 to 87 on the fuel pump relay socket. Look for 5.6 bar system pressure, and 1.0-1.4 control pressure. Crack a fitting or two on the FD and see if you get some fuel. If not, turn the mixture screw clockwise until you see fuel start to come out.

Then reconnect wires to the WUR and you should see the control pressure come up to 3.4-3.8 bars in a couple of minutes.

If you are getting these values, and spark, the car should at least start and run. Leave the gauge on to see what happens to CP while it's running.

If you don't see these values, you need to find out why.

I had guages on it and was getting values like you said but I didn't disconnect WUR. How do you know which is system pressure and which is control pressure when connection to guage does not change. I had guage on and it would be like 1/2 bar then climb up and then drop down. I never removed the WUR connector. I put the guage on the injector line also and adjusted the air fuel screw just til the pressure started to build on gauge.

[ctaylor738]

Fuel flows from the fuel distributor (fd) to the warm-up regulator (wur). The wur has a valve which bleeds fuel back to the tank.

System pressure is measured by blocking the flow to the wur by closing the valve on the wur side of the gauge. The fd has a relief valve that maintains 5.8 bars of system pressure, by sending some fuel back to the tank.

So then you open the valve, and that allows more fuel to flow through the wur and back to the tank. This reduces the pressure to about 3.8 bars for a warm engine. But to provide enrichment when cold, the wur increases the flow back to the tank, which lowers cp to 1.0 - 1.4 bars depending on the temperature. Now, there is an bimetallic strip in the wur that gets current from the fuel pump relay. As it heats up, it bends and increases the pressure on the valve, which reduces the flow back to the tank and increases control pressure, stabilizing at 3.8 bar.

The reason that you disconnect the electrical from the wur is so that you can get a stable reading with the engine cold, like if you are adjusting the wur, you don't want the reading changing because the strip is heating up! So you test the constant reading and then do a second test to let the strip heat up and bend.

The key to understanding this is that the lower the control pressure , the richer the mixture. This is hard to get your head around. But it happens because as control pressure is reduced, a given movement of the air sensor plate moves the piston in the fd a greater distance, increasing flow to the injectors. Higher control pressure works in the opposite manner.

[cheapold280ce]

Originally Posted by ctaylor738

Fuel flows from the fuel distributor (fd) to the warm-up regulator (wur). The wur has a valve which bleeds fuel back to the tank.

System pressure is measured by blocking the flow to the wur by closing the valve on the wur side of the gauge. The fd has a relief valve that maintains 5.8 bars of system pressure, by sending some fuel back to the tank.

So then you open the valve, and that allows more fuel to flow through the wur and back to the tank. This reduces the pressure to about 3.8 bars for a warm engine. But to provide enrichment when cold, the wur increases the flow back to the tank, which lowers cp to 1.0 - 1.4 bars depending on the temperature. Now, there is an bimetallic strip in the wur that gets current from the fuel pump relay. As it heats up, it bends and increases the pressure on the valve, which reduces the flow back to the tank and increases control pressure, stabilizing at 3.8 bar.

The reason that you disconnect the electrical from the wur is so that you can get a stable reading with the engine cold, like if you are adjusting the wur, you don't want the reading changing because the strip is heating up! So you test the constant reading and then do a second test to let the strip heat up and bend.

The key to understanding this is that the lower the control pressure , the richer the mixture. This is hard to get your head around. But it happens because as control pressure is reduced, a given movement of the air sensor plate moves the piston in the fd a greater distance, increasing flow to the injectors. Higher control pressure works in the opposite manner.

O.K. so I hookup guage inline top of fuel distributor. If I close valve then pressure should be 5.8 BAR that's check the pressure relief valve on the fuel distributor going to return. (eg. system pressure) This is also setp to check return gas volume check.

Next with engine cold and WUR (electricals) disconnected I should have low pressure reading 1.0 depending on temperature. Then pull in WUR and should get 3.8 bar.

[ctaylor738]

Right, but remember that you open the valve on the gauge to measure CP.

And you need to have the relay jumpered, or the FD plug pulled so the pump will run constantly.