Price range for 1991 560SEL
 

Hey folks,

I've been out of the game of keeping track of W126s for sale, asking prices and transaction prices for a while so I decided to seek your assistance for this car that I saw today. It is a 1991 560SEL, I didn't take a detailed look at it because I was in a hurry but I will do so on Monday. It has a black exterior and tan interior, both in excellent shape, 145K miles. I didn't even start it but judging by the appearance of the car I'm guessing it must have been well cared for, but I will verify all this of course. The dealer actually sold the car 2 years ago and now the owner ran into financial issues and sold it back to the dealer.

The car dealer is asking for $6910. What kind of prices are these going for these days? All help will be greatly appreciated. :)

Check the Kelly blue book value and look at the car closey to see what catergory it fits under

Wow, I didn't mean KBB values, those are official values are with these cars they don't sync with real world values. I meant to hear figures from actual transactions. Thanks!

Someone may pay $1 million dollars for a ferrari but another person with alot of money wouldnt want even touch a ferrari, so it all depends on the buyer.

But seeing how w126s were mass produced the value of them wont be as high early 1940 and 50s mercedes.

Many people use kelly blue book as aguideline or another car review site when deciding to buy a car.

Just my .02

Valuation guides tend to be all over the place and largely worthless. I'd say it's a reasonable asking price, if it's a nice car, but with that mileage it's not likely to fly off the lot. $5-$6k is probably more like it - but again it's got to be sound.

They may appear "worthless" to some but they do affect whether someone buys a car or not just by what people have to say about them and their experiences.

Thanks, that's more like what I was expecting. About 2 years ago a car like this one would fetch $4,500 to $6,000 on the market. I guess that hasn't changed.

I think that's right - a real nice example will bottom out, hold it's value for a while and then maybe even come back someday, while the rest of the market slides down the slope to the salvage yard.

OOk folks, help me out.

My target price range was $4000 to $6000, preferably somewhere in the middle, for a well maintained example.

I've looked at several and have seen 2 that I like so far in that price range, one has 143K miles, the other is a Euro spec 1989 with 190K miles.

I have a question about a third one I just checked out tonight. For this one, the owner was asking for $8950, though he has said that he's willing to sell it for $8000. It has 88,000 miles, is a 1989, looks very nice from what I could see in the dark. I didn't drive it, though the guy said it drives perfectly. It has new tires, the interior is chocolate brown or something like that, I'm not a huge fan of the interior color (exterior is silver) but it isn't a big deal. The car has been in the same family all its life, the current owner purchased it from his dad just a few years ago. He said he has a stack of service records including a replacement of some components of the rear hydraulic suspension. Dealer serviced all its life. Spent 10 years in Florida. Here are the things he disclosed that aren't perfect: rear heated seat switch does not come on, I didn't check them myself and he said he does not know if it is both switches or just one, then one of the rear windows does not work now because that darned white plastic inside the door panel broke, he said he purchased the plastic but is yet to have it replaced, and that's it.

While I've been out of the W126 game for 2 years, I've owned 4 of them and from what I can recall, those are tiny issues, so the real question I have is this: even with the low mileage and excellent maintenance records, is it worth that much? Isn't $8000 a bit much for any of these? Of course at the end the car is worth what my wallet is willing to pay for it, but I thought I'd just see what you folks think. I will have to drive it, see all the records, check it out in day light and possibly get a PPI before I make a move of course, but now I have to decide if it is worth going waay over budget for it.

You're into the realm of personal opinion here but to me if you're going to go out of the market range for the car you want to be able to walk up to it everyday thinking it's a nice color. Silver (maybe smoke silver?) and chocolate brown seems a bit strange - must have been very rare.

I know, I know, forget about the color though. It was dark for one so I didn't get to see it well, we met in a parking lot located right next to a fire station so we didn't get much light and I knew I was just getting a sort of "preview" and would have to go back for a more detailed look before making a decision. The price is what I am concerned about, I'm trying to see what that lower mileage is worth. :confused:

Opinion
 

You asked for opinions. Here is mine. When buying a car of that age, you may as well throw any "book" values away. You apparently understand that. The $8000 is very high for that car BUT .... I have paid $1000 more than "usual" for a 123 (300D turbodiesel) and was glad I did. The difference between an average value and a high value in an older car is, in my opinion, service records. It sounds as though the $8000 car has plenty of record history and the others do not. Now $8000 is still too high I think. I would still pay a premium for that car but would offer $7000 and negotiate from there.

One more aspect though; If one is willing to pay a premium for a car it should have everything one wants. That means if you don't like the way the interior looks, don't buy it. I would hate to get in my "overpriced" car every morning and wish it had a black or burgundy (or whatever) interior. It sounds like you are not desperate for another car right now. There are plenty out there. Just look for service records.

Yes indeed, I asked for opinions and I thank you for offering yours up. You're right on all that you stated (or at least I agree with you). I'm going to look at this car again in broad daylight to see the colors clearly and be sure I like them.

However, considering how old these cars are and the fact that there aren't too many of them in the condition I want that are up for sale, maybe I'm being to picky on the color!! I mean, the one that's exactly the colors I like (black exterior, beige interior) has service records but they aren't as comprehensive and detailed as those for the other one with the less desirable color. Then there's the one with 190K miles that's in good shape, has excellent records and has been very well maintained but has cloth seats and I just feel bad walking away from it just because I want leather seats. It is well priced too, the seller wants $5K and I'm sure he'll take $4,500. I'll just factor all these into my decision, and as you observed, I am not in a hurry so I'll kinda sorta take my time with it. At times I truly wonder how many of these cars are actually on the road to get a better feel for the chances that I will get one with everything I want. :P

I paid less for mine... less miles and clean as can be. Demand for gas hogs is very low, 9-12 city is all I receive. Which is fine, I bought it as I wanted one not for being a gas-miser.



Assume the worst on a purchase, just because it's clean doesn't mean jack.

Of course you always have to assume worst on a purchase but you can reduce the degree of horrors you'll experience by going after the cleanest, best maintained example you can get.

Tell me, how much did you pay for yours and how many miles did it have at the time, if you're ok with disclosing it? Thanks.

Oh I agree, the more records the better... but you still just NEVER know as finding a competent mechanic on vintage Euro iron is difficult as short cuts could have been taken or how lazy the person working on the vehicle is/was. Take my 750iL, came with near $25k in receipts ($6500 within the past year before my purchase at a DEALER)... the M70 V12s always need intake manifold gaskets with age (mine only has about 122k now). Well why would the shop just replace those and not the valve cover gaskets? They were obviously leaking. :confused:

Take my 560, found out it has a new chain rolled in... but still was on an original radiator and the AC system was near empty when I picked it up. Who would go through all that hassle and not replace a radiator. :confused: I've never priced out a chain install, but I work slow and takes me 3-5 hours plus the cost of the chain... sounds like a $500 job at minimum. The CIS system has been adjusted also, again... not free.

Paid around $3600 all said and done I think it was for that 560 (My SD and 300SEL are the best purchases I have made... about $1500 and $1000). Around 138k. Base model 560 (no four place, no rear sunscreen, no CD, etc). SLS pump was leaking, needed a brake job front to rear, typical oil level sender oil leak, AC was near empty, some dead vac pods for HVAC, cracked rotor/old cap/wrong plugs, etc. If the car was like new like it is almost now, I'd have expected it to fetch $3-5k more probably depending on buyer/market, I have attached a pic for idea of interior. Driver side is just as clean also. Paint isn't perfect, but I'd say a good 7.5-8, clear is great and car waxes up well.

Most of the issues it had I find are common across the board for the W126 so fix them once and forget about it for ten years, you will find this MUCH more user friendly to operate on over the W140. Figure I have put $1-1.2k into it, which I'd consider necessary for just about any old vehicle (all fluids, belts, hoses, ign system, etc, etc) plus the required bits I had to have done like brakes, shocks, etc. I do my own labor and enjoy it, so it doesn't bother me saving a good sum of cash up front... I can put that extra play money into another car. :)

This is a buyers market for everything, show up with cash and be prepared to walk (I'm sure you know, buy for paint, then interior, then mechanical). Euro cars have that stigma which is good for you to purchase and bad for the seller.

I'm looking for a nice 500sel (ECE prefer or US) or 420sel for the condo, just depends what I find at the time.

Sorry to ramble on, feel free to contact me if you need.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...nz/560SEL1.jpg

This is a very true point, I don't think these cars can get cheaper. Search through the craigslist for 560SEL, find the oldest ad and ask them if it's for sale.

I bet more often then not, it will be. I know a fellow who just picked one up for $280 and it runs pretty well. It has had a rough life but he has a lot of spare cash to fix it.

The benefit of the W126 is that compared to other cars of the era (lexus LS 400, BMW 750il) it's actually quite simple and can be worked on by the hobby mechanic.

Yes! The only reason I have the E32 V12 is due to the history, I paid right around $4k for it... twice what they "typically" go for... but had MASSIVE records. That is not something I'd want without history, or even consider.

My old lady had a '96 LS400 for around a decade, total pain to work on... I mean even the most trivial was irritating like the oil change. Who had the idea to put the oil filter ABOVE the AC lines? Air filter assembly was a terrible design. PS pump above alt... :rolleyes: Mechanically the motor/trans held up great, but not user friendly in the least bit. Interior felt cheap to me and didn't hold up how it should have.

I appreciate your "rant", haha, the more details the better, so please keep "ranting" :cool: I'll take a look at that low mileage 560SEL this weekend in broad daylight, if I don't like what I see I'll walk. If I like the colors I'll bargain hard, yes indeed, these are hard times and gas prices are high so I'll use those factors to my advantage. I can tell the guy wants to sell, he even called me yesterday to see when I wanted to check out the car during daylight hours. Just might be an opening for me. :D

One of the things that comes with a "simple" 126 is no diagnostic system, or virtually no diagnostic system. I find the next generation "complexity", which is not really all that complex and is in many ways improved, to be a good trade-off in light of the nice diagnostic systems that comes with it.

That's true, that's one of the reasons why many hardcore Benz enthusiasts believe the W126 is the best all around Benz ever, because it is sort of the middle ground between the super bullet proof and complication-free but rust bucket W123 and the later 90s models (W124, W140, etc) with their electronics and lack of simplicity. I love the W140, my S600 is such a great car that even though I initially planned to drive it only in the summer and sometimes in the winter for just long trips, I've ended up insuring it all year round and driving it a lot more. In fact, if it weren't for the much more expensive gas it needs (and needs much more of in quantity :P) I may have driven it more than my Hyundai. However my love for the W126 is still there, I've always wanted a 560SEL and now I'm out to get one. :D

Now a 300E W124 (12 valve) is a fairly simple car to own/maintain. :) Fairly well balanced and decently quick. Great lil daily unit, I just prefer the sheer mass of the W126... just not the LWB W126 with an M103 :D

Good chum of mine had one for years before he got clipped and it was totaled. :(

Actually you're right, the W124 chassis models weren't complex, their replacement was for sure though. Gotta love the W126, design, length, size, all too good. :D

Man, saw the car today, what a beauty. Brand new tires, paint is a 9 out of 10, low mileage of 87,000 backed up well with service receipts. The car has never seen a service shop that's not an MB dealer!!! Owner spared no dollars on it -- he can afford it, I just learned he's a real estate tycoon who owns 54 rental homes. Nitrogen chambers on rear suspension were replaced last year, new brakes (pads and rotors) as well as brake fluid flush, A/C is still original R-12 and blows cold, belts were replaced last year. Only minuses are the two switches that don't work plus there's a squeaking noise when you turn the steering, something we both couldn't quite isolate and the car's idle is not 100% smooth, but I think the timing just needs adjustment.

Regarding the color, the interior is chocolate brown, actually not bad, the silver exterior is razor sharp, as he pulled up to our meeting point I just admired the car, very beautiful.

I don't know, I probably can't afford the car, honestly speaking I think in good times it can fetch every cent of his $8900 asking price, it probably can't fetch that price today due to the economic environment everyone is well aware of, but it is a really nice, well maintained car.

That price range you can be in a 300hp ECE 560sel. I paid about half that for my 750iL with records out the... ;)

The brown interior kills the resale. I parted an SDL that had that interior color and was that piss/camel yellow exterior. Awful combo.

54 homes is a pile, I thought I had a bunch at 17. :(

I tell you, that interior color is something I want to think over. I actually like it, it looks cool but I also thought of its possible impact on resale value. I don't know, I just might offer him $6000, no more than $7000.

Regarding houses, yeah, the man's father is a top dog. Do you personally tend to your 17 rental homes?

The brown is different, but sure isn't up my alley. :) Most don't care for it, so if you like it... use that to your advantage.

Such as do I repair them myself? Usually not, I tend to farm out the labor as my time is worth more... plus I prefer to relax playing with the cars with my limited energy.

Something that can stop this car dead is old age timing chain rails and cam oiler tubes. Might be worth investigating. Good Luck

I thought about that earlier, however I think that if the oil changes have been done within the proper mileage intervals that wouldn't be an issue right?

I guess I can take off the valve covers to check, but how do I know if the rails and lubes are bad?

If the seller has no proof that the chain, tensioner and rails were replaced, offer AT LEAST 2000. less than he is asking. It does not matter that the oil was changed often, this is a required maintenance item.

Often these cars are sold because they need maintenance or repair. Thats the buyers ace in the hole.

I can confidently tell you that he isn't selling the car because it needs something; he still drives it daily and it seems to be in great shape. At least by my judgment.

I've been out of the game for a couple of years so correct me if I am wrong, but these cars have chains that last long. The engine has just 87K miles, so isn't it premature at this stage to be expecting the timing chain to have been replaced?

I have been looking for a 300SEL (and about have my mind set on buying one - I will know for sure in two days), but I just ran across a local 1990 560SEL. It looks good, but it has front window issues. Also the owner has no clue as to when the timing chain was last changed and it has 260K! :eek: This would need to be changed ASAP (guides, rails, tensioner, etc). They are asking $2000, but said its negotiable. I was planning on about $600 for new chain/guides/rails... someone said $2K... is it really that much on these cars?

I think a local MB indy quoted me $500 for this when I had my 85' 380SE.

Same here, local indy will do it for $500. Don't know where the $2000 figure came from either. I'm assuming the $2000 is meant to cover for other things the car will need.

Perspective.
 

I wrote this buyers guide for the 560SEC but it applies to this vehicle as well


http://www.mbcoupes.com/buyersguide/buyersguide.htm


Now, this was written in 1998, and there was some assistance by the site owner, but the advice is still basically sound, and applies today.


Except for the price of course. The market today is squishy soft, as gas prices are high, and the cars unapologetically drink a LOT of Persian Perrier


But they are NOT normal cars. With proper care they will last a lifetime.


I purchased mine when it was only a few years from new. I paid somewhere in the neighborhood of $38,000 as certified preowned from the Mercedes Benz dealer near Disneyland. It had 50,000 on it, and was mint, perfect and needed nothing. The man who owned the Beverly Hills Hotel had owned it, and he gave me all the records he had on it, back to April 1992

What is notable is that now, it still looks the same at 130,000 miles and runs, looks and drives as new, and still delivers power comfort, safety and prestige.
in the same measure it did when it was new.

These vehicles when new, were sold to multimillionaires, plutocrats, captains of industry, ambassadorial and entertainment figures to whom cost were no object.

And they were built to a cost no object standard, Mercedes Benz gave every one of them their very best Germanic effort.

And they cost! The flagship 560SEL cost over $70,000 when new in the late 80s and early 90s. That was a lot!!!


Whatever you paid for it today won't be anything more than a historical footnote in ten years from today

The best advice is to buy the one in the best condition you can , with a sheaf of records to prove it has been kept up


I have seen MANY used car SEC/SE/SEL owners spend far more in $$$$$$ just trying to catch up on repairs, and actually surpass what would have been spent on the mint condition car they should have bought in the first place



As to mine, over the the years it needed maintenance, but I gave it whatever it needed.

Just now it is in the body shop having the front bumper replaced and the rear one reshot because they had wear and tear consistent with 17 years of daily driving.


This is how it looked a couple of months ago.


http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r...IMG_1202-1.jpg
Some highlights: Get a prepurchase inspection.


I would replace the timing chain, tensioner and guide rails if I bought the 88 probably Smoke Silver with chocolate
interior, even though the actual mileage is below the recommended 100,000 on it.

Reason? Because the guide rails themselves are 20 years old, and by now are likely OLD, brittle and may have hairline cracks!!! If they are root beer brown and not white it should be time. If they crumble, your chain will slip, usually on the left bank, and there will be havoc - your engine just needs a rebuilt now..... think about it....


For that, you could get an estimate on it, and try and hammer the guy on the price. Id be more concerned with the shape of the body. Is there rust, does it leak after the carwash in the interior and trunk, does it have vacuum locking HVAC and suspension problems?


The 88 has not the issues a car that is undocumented as to past repairs, unlikely to have deferred maintenance issues, by 7th and 8th tier owners that wanted a luxury Benz but could not afford to keep it up.



There is another buyers guide to peruse at www.sec-shop.com a British site.

I wont link the German ones as they are in German.


After you buy, or even before, take a look at the W126 section of the benzworld.com forum.


It is the busiest such site in the world, and as a Moderator of that I can state that it is the truth, the best place for further questions of any type whatsoever on the 560SEL

Hope this helps

Thanks for your input. After reading your post earlier this morning I called my trustly old indy and he confirmed your recommendation. He said he wasn't particularly concerned about the chain but was concerned about the guides. He said that costs about $800 - $900 to replace (plus chain). I'll keep that in mind as I continue to look around for a 560SEL.

They're not a hard DIY job, $2k and you're taking a bath. I can do them in a slow afternoon, as stated the driver side is most prone to failure.



I think we all agree, without full records the car is overpriced.

If I purchase the car I'll probably do the chain myself then, as long as the actual labor out of that $800-$900 price tag exceeds $500 (which I'm sure of). The car does have full service records, it's just what it would be needing soon that I'm trying to figure out. I definitely can't blame anyone for not changing the timing chain on their car of such low mileage, my indy said it isn't the chain that would really push him to do such work on the car but the guides which are made of brittle plastic that tends to wear out over time.

After giving it some thought, I decided that as much as that '89 car is awesome and needs nothing (just the timing chain work perhaps), the interior color means that to me it isn't a "perfect" car according to my dreams and wishes, so I told the guy that I can't pay more than $5000 for the car. He admitted to me that I am the 3rd potential buyer to walk away due to the interior color but that he's sticking to his asking price because he knows the car, with its excellent maintenance records/history and near perfect condition, is worth it. So as you can all see he has a "my price or no sale" approach towards it which I can understand, I probably would have the same attitude if I were selling that car.

I've bought many Benzes across the spectrum. Every condition from dragging it home on a trailer to mint with records.

I've had cause to regret many of my low to mid price purchases, rather quickly getting more invested into the car than I could have bought a much nicer example for....

On the other hand, I've yet to regret paying over market/over book for an extremely nice example with a full history and obvious loving care.

My 90 560SEL is such a car, bought from second owner 4.5 years ago, original owner traded it in on a 92 S-class, took trip to Florida immediately, then they returned and tried to get the 560 back. Too bad it was already sold to my friend.

My car was the right color, the right owner and I paid at the top end of the spectrum. Other than the evaporator failing last year, which I repaired myself, I have had to do virtually nothing to this car other than routine maintenance. The records detailed every nickel spent on the car, and it had a PPI at his MB dealer just before I bought it. No problems to report. The car was freshly detailed when I picked it up, engine looked clean enough to eat off it. Black paint looks a foot deep, and very little imperfections.

Was it worth it? Absolutely. Even though it spends most of it's time in the garage, I still feel like I'm driving a new car whenever I drive it, which was around 2k miles this past year.

Is the car worth what I paid for it? Unfortunately, no.

Does it matter? Not really, I have no intention of selling it, and I carry Grundy stated value insurance, so I'm covered if anything happens.

There are still some minty W126s out there, find one well taken care of and treated well like mine in a color you love and you'll never regret it!

Jim

Thanks for your response. The seller sent me an email earlier with a counter offer of $7000. Looks like he wants to play ball!!

If you are going to go in there anyway, I would at least consider the whole thing just to be done with it, and not have to worry about going back later:


Timing chain, tensioners, guide rails, cam oilers and injectors.

Injectors? When do they normally wear out on that engine?

It's hard to say when they wear out.

They don't at any set time, and mine were just fine, having been treated to Techron laced Chervron premium 91 octane fuel from the beginning, but out of an abundance of caution, once those valve covers were off the car, and everything was accessible, I was doing the timing chain anyway, I decided to start fresh at 100,000 miles and take care of them and refresh everything.



It ran great BEFORE all of that work, which to me was preventative maintenance, and it runs even better today.



An aggressive maintenace program works very well with these cars, at 130,000 miles I have never had problems, except for what I feel is oil consumption that is a bit too high for the mileage on the car.



It runs perfectly

Hey, I might be buying this car. The seller called me again and said he'd be willing to take $6000 for it. I previously offered him $5K which is honestly a bit of a low offer, but hey, I think that if he will take $5500 and submit to a PPI by my indy we can make a deal. :D

Looks like I am rolling forward on this. The guy and his wife reluctantly accepted my $5000 offer. They had no other takers and need the cash.

My indy will be doing a PPI on it tomorrow and if everything comes out as I anticipate, I'll be purchasing the car right away. I will keep you all posted. :cool:

This was your last post? I hope you are enjoying your new car. Just update us (me) if you can. Like to see how these things turn out.

I apologize, yes it was my last post, I just got carried away. Here are the updates.

I purchased the 1988 with 88K miles for $5000. I then immediately spent another $1000 on it replacing the timing chain and guides and fixing the rear seated heat which wasn't working (there was an electrical short introduced to it when an amateur installed the CD player in the car). Then I gave it a fresh oil change and changed the spark plugs but didn't change the wires since they seemed to be good enough for now according to my voltmeter.

Records wise, I've never seen or purchased a car with more complete records and neither has my indy. It is also such an eye opener to read the records and see how much auto reliability and durability has improved. In 1988 Mercedes-Benz made the most reliable cars but this car had just about all its suspension components replaced within the first 2000 miles!! There were also so many other warranty claims that would simply be unheard of today, even among the least reliable brands.

Anyway, the car is good, I'm enjoying it, thanks for all your guidance here. It does have a problem that I am yet to address. Even after an alignment, the car does not track straight and pulls to the left when braking.

I was pleasantly surprised to find out that the windshield washer fluid reservoir is heated. CooL! :cool:

Awesome to hear you got the car! I want one of those some day. :D Does it consume gas like an aircraft?


Whats a rear seated heat? :D :D ;)

Haha oh it sure does consume gas like an aircraft!! I've never averaged better than 16MPG. These days it averages 14MPG thanks to the cold weather starts. I have to admit, I almost always drive it like I stole it (gotta get the fun out of that V8) so I'm not trying to get good fuel consumption figures out of it.

I too am glad that you bought the car. I suspect that there are a lot of good deals out there from those of us in the real estate business.

Could you post some pictures to include the motor.

Thanks.