88 300E M-103 auto. turns over, won't start... - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

gsxr · #31 02-09-2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400Eric

G-man, I'm confused. If I understand that page correctly, That LED should only be on if I activated it myself, which I didn't do---it came on on it's own.

Yeah, I was wondering about that. Weird. Don't worry about it though, turn the key on, hold the button for 3 seconds, and start counting blinks... probably won't mean much if the engine isn't running though.

400Eric · #32 02-09-2009, 08:01 PM

It's not that I'm worried, it's just that I'm thinking this is a possible clue to why this car won't run. I want to explore it since it's the only clue I've had so far...

pawoSD · #33 02-09-2009, 08:03 PM

If its not even coughing when trying to start, then the diagnostic light is going to be useless.....especially on an '88....pretty much all it tells is O2 sensor.....which won't stop the car from starting.

400Eric · #34 02-09-2009, 08:17 PM

It's the fact that the LED is on when it shouldn't be on...makes me think there might be an issue with the electronics. Remember, this car sat all this time with a dead dead very dead battery (it was already dead when I parked the car in 6/07). Also, rodents may have chewed a wire or 2. No, it doesn't even try to cough when turning over.
I've confirmed there is no blockage in the air cleaner or tube but the little $hits did chew up the element a bit so it can suck dirty unfiltered air now--how nice.
This rain is sadistic... every time it seems to stop, I grab the coat and gloves and head out only to have it start up again... Remember how Lucy used to taunt Charlie Brown with the football?
I'm thinking if the ether doesn't work, to try the Jetronic ECU from my 89 (wife's really) since we know that one is good.
I get mixed up sometimes which car got what, but I think this car got a new O2 sensor less than 10,000 miles ago. I'd have to look at my files to see but you are right, it shouldn't keep it from starting.

gsxr · #35 02-10-2009, 12:56 PM

These engines are mostly mechanical, including mechanical fuel injection... if you are getting spark, they should start. Don't forget to pull the plugs and make sure they're not wet & fouled with raw gas.

400Eric · #36 02-11-2009, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

If it has sat for 2 years without being driven its going to take more than a day to get it going. The gas has all turned to varnish by now, possibly wrecking: Fuel pump, fuel distributor....injectors.....lines.....pressure regulator.....the list goes on. Its going to need some major work. Including probably having the fuel tank pulled and cleaned.

If you move it Monday, its going to be on a tow truck.

Wrong! We actually moved it with a chain! Normally I don't give up this easy but I just ran out of time (the downpours didn't help) and I simply had to move the car. Actually, I haven't given up, I just have other things that must be tended to right now plus I'm leaving town again on Friday (yes, the 13th) for 2 weeks (business). Also, I want to take my 400E back to the strip when I get back so after that, maybe in about a month, I'll get back to work on this one and I'll be reporting back here with some answers.

G-man, You are right. I seem to remember reading somewhere that these CIS cars will run even if the ECU completely fails. You just lose the electronic control of the air/fuel ratio. So this car should be running! And it will be!

As the G-man can attest to, I generally don't leave threads hanging. As our Governator would say, "I'll be back". If anybody else thinks of something that hasn't already been thought of, please do post it! Thanks again to all of you! Regards, Eric

tinypanzer · #37 02-11-2009, 09:07 PM

Is your air meter plate stuck?

-tp

400Eric · #38 02-12-2009, 03:22 AM

Is that the plate over the throttle body? It's not stuck---it is funny you would mention that. It actually seems to me that there is not enough resistance---the plate seems to move too freely. How much resistance should there be? Maybe something has failed (a diaphragm? Maybe it got chewed?) If it's not getting sucked open when it should be, that would be the same as it being stuck closed. I need to check the one on the '89. I also need to watch how that plate is supposed to behave when starting/running. Thanks. Regards, Eric

pawoSD · #39 02-12-2009, 07:07 AM

The pressure when moving the air meter should come from it pushing on the plunger in the fuel distributor....if it moves too freely that means the plunger is jammed/stuck. Likely due to varnished gas....like I said before. Fuel distributors don't like sitting, its probably shot.

400Eric · #40 02-12-2009, 07:42 AM

You and your bad gas--- maybe you should take something for it?

I've already admitted that I don't know too much about these M-103s. I just can't believe that 2 identical cars filled at the same station with the same gas that sat almost the same amount of time at the same location would react so differently. The '89 has been running like a top ever since it was reanimated/recommissioned at the end of October. One sat for 16 months and one sat for 19 months and 1 week.
I do appreciate your help---please don't get me wrong.
We'll just have to see what it is when I get back. Regards, Eric

pawoSD · #41 02-12-2009, 08:01 AM

If I am correct I think the 400E has an entirely different injection system.....the 300E has the older style CIS....which is much more sensative to sitting and fuel issues. In general you have to run fuel system cleaners fairly often to keep the fuel distributor and injectors happy.....they're just needy.

gsxr · #42 02-12-2009, 10:46 AM

ETHER!!!!

400Eric · #43 02-13-2009, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

If I am correct I think the 400E has an entirely different injection system.....the 300E has the older style CIS....which is much more sensative to sitting and fuel issues. In general you have to run fuel system cleaners fairly often to keep the fuel distributor and injectors happy.....they're just needy.

"I've had many cars through the years including my 93 400E that have sat for extended periods without ruining the fuel system. The 400E sat from 8/05 till 6/07 with no ill effect. The 88 300E sat from 6/07 till now (remember, I said less than 2 years) My 89 300E, which was also parked in 6/07, fired right up and ran great when asked to do so at the end of last October. That's just 3 months and 1 week less time sitting than the 88 300E."
I think you are confusing the 89 300E with the 93 400E. the 88 and 89 are identical. Yes, the 400E has a completely different and for the most part much more efficient fuel injection system but in my experience the CIS cars are more reliable. That's one of the reasons why I love them so much. My 137,000 mile 400E (Benzer III) has given me more trouble than both my 194,000 mile 88 300E (Benzer II) and our much beloved 230,000 mile 89 300E (Benzer I) have combined. That's one of the reasons why I'm so much more knowlegable about the M-119 despite having owned it the least amount of time. The 90 and later CIS cars became a little more complex and I have no experience with them so my coments don't apply to them. Regards, Eric

400Eric · #44 02-13-2009, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

ETHER!!!!

Don't you know that stuff can cause brain damage?

Like I said, I just ran out of time. I have other things that have to be tended to and I'm leaving for 2 weeks tomorrow. And as I also said, ether is first on the agenda when I get back to work on Benzer II. There were things that needed to get done before I left that didn't get done because this half day job turned into a 3 and a half day job. Remember, this car isn't even here now. Don't worry, we'll figure it out! Thanks again to everyone! Regards, Eric

400Eric · #45 02-26-2009, 11:05 PM

I'm back! Have a million things to do though. Will try to get to the 88 in a few days. Regards, Eric