Questions on my NEW 1988 300E 5-speed
 

I am driving from Salt Lake City, Utah to Old Lyme, Ct. in my new 1988 300E, which is in unbelievable condition. I need to replace the tires as soon as I get back, as they are pretty worn and have been run by the previous owner in an unbalanced condition. They kind of drone like off road vehicle tires, and vibrate a lot on anything but the smoothest pavement at any speed. On smooth pavement the wheels will start to shake a bit over 65mph. Anyway, the question is the correct tire size. The manual says it takes 195/65 VR-15's and the car has 205/60 VR-15's, which it would seem are mathematically about equal to the manual requirement in diameter, so the speedometer seems relatively accurate. I was wondering if 215/55 VR-15s might be ok, or if I should stick with the factory recommended size.

After driving for approximately 6 hrs straight at speeds in and around 80 mph in Utah and Colorado, the SRS light started coming on on the dash. It would stay on for 1-3 seconds, then go off for 15 to 20 minutes. This slowly and erratically changed to intermittently staying on for up to 20 seconds, and then blinking repeatedly, to staying on for two hours. When I shut the car off and start it up either the next morning or after a nature break, which is a relatively short time, it stays off for a few hours and then the pattern starts again. Any ideas on what the issue might be and how to fix it?

Thanks, Jim

300E 5 speed. Talk to Good ol Larry Bible our resident owner of a 300E 5 speed who knows that car very well.

How is the cars maintenance been done over the years, what is its mileage etc etc. you say excellent condition. It could be a number of things. I would start by using the search feature of the site, to search for things like SRS light 300E, or search for 300e srs and such. you should geta great amount of posts that might already have the answer. But you can still geta good answer here.

When you get it home, make sure you have your mercedes tech give it a good fluid changing of fluids that are needed, coolant should be ensured to be Mercedes coolant. spark plugs gapped right, air filter replaced if necesary, tune up stuff basically to make sure your baby is running right. Then have or check out the electrical items, OVP, SRS relays or sensors, etc etc.

Check the wheels and tires forum, you can up the tire size to a more aggressive size, but I believe the 205/60 is the sportline tire size.

Go to www.tirerack.com and check on the tires and reviews. Also call luke at the tire rack. He can help you get the right tires for yoru needs, and can get them to you and find a place to put them on for you wherever you might be in this country.

Correct me if I am wrong here as well please...

Alon

Do your search under SRS lights or sensors. I think I read that the SRS sensors, located by your wheels, get dirty with brake dust and cannot "sense" anything, therefore the intermittent light . I never had this problem so I did not reasearch it any further.
Good luck with you NEW car.

I had an intermittant SRS light coming on at one time which turned out to be the slip rings inside the steering wheel. I think this is a pretty common problem with MBs with airbags. One way of determining this is to see if the light tends to come on when the wheel is in a certain position.

Mine was fixed under warranty so I don't know how to do it, but as I recall it wasn't a very expensive fix.

Jim,

Congratulations on finding one of these gems. Only a little over 300 '88's made it to the US with the five speed. Mine has over 200K miles now and is getting a little rough around the edges, but it's still a fabulous, reliable and great fun to drive car.

I can't offer too much advice about the SRS system except that it is EXPENSIVE to fix. If you're lucky, the most common problem is the contacts inside the steering wheel.

I know the 205/60's will be okay, but I'm not sure about the 215 55's.

Enjoy,

I'd run 205/60-15, and have the airbag contact ring & related parts in the steering wheel replaced. I had the EXACT same symptoms, and this was my fix:)

On my '88 300e (automatic) the srs light came on due to alternator failure; you may want to check the volts etc.

fd/

For the stock 195/65-15 tires, 215/60-15 is closer (0.7%) vs the 205/60-15 (1.2%).

See at

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

Thanks for the input guys,

I just finished the trip home, 2,528 miles by the odometer and an average of 29.07 miles per gallon. I will retrace my path using MapQuest to check the mileage as I believe the odometer was a little low on miles compared to the highway markers. A lot better than I expected (our C230 Kompressor Sport does not get that kind of mileage) as I never drove much below 70 mph and spent quite a bit of time at 75 mph, which was about 2600 rpm or so. The tires were so bad above 85 mph that I spent the trip a little aprehensive about going much over 75 once I left Colorado.

The car has 97,800 miles on it now, and it does have a few other idiosyncracies, like an unstable idle once in a while that a blip on the throttle fixes, and a built in radar detector that probably dates back to 1988 as it is really primitive and nasty (a Bel Micro Eye Remote unit in the ashtray, which was never used for smoking, another nice feature). It has been serviced by a German car place (Clarke German Auto Service, LLC in Provo, Utah), and had the valve seals replaced, along with the timing chain, at 84,000 miles. A tune up in October which consisted of transmission fluid, differential fluid, plugs, power steering fluid and filter, air filter, and an inspection of the brakes, etc. was also performed. On the way home the car used maybe 8 ounces of oil, which was Pennzoil 40W grade. I will be switching to Mobil 1 and a new filter later today.

The exterior is white, with not a dent or a rust spot, except for the edges of the jack tube on the front passenger side. I will have that taken care of shortly, and before Winter sets in here. I am thinking of having the car Ziebarted to renew the rustproofing.

The interior is pristine. A grey leather with not a single flaw anywhere. No dash cracks, no aging of the wood, other than a slightly cloudy appearance of the wood around the area of the window switches. The right side, front window does not work, and the previous owner believes it is something in the door, not the switch, for some reason he was unable to clearly relay to me. I will dig into that today too.

Steering is tight, muffler is tight, engine runs very smoothly, almost to a fault, as it will let you lug or rev it without complaint. With the radio on, which was a standard M-B unit of the day, I had to look at the tach to figure out if I needed to shift.

Overall it is a great car. I will be exploring the SRS light issue and calling Tire Rack shortly. I will as for Luke. Thanks for the help, and a place to share my excitement over finding the car. Jim

Depending on the width of your wheels, 215's should work fine.

Also, per the TireRack's spec for Michelin Engery MXV4+ tires:

195/65R15: 24.9"
205/60R15: 24.8"
215/60R15: 25.0"

If your SRS light comes on a long-straight highway driving, 98% it's the steering-wheel's slip-ring and brushes. My 1988 W124 wagon had the same symptoms, and the slip-ring was worn-thru and lots of brush material.

A very CHEAP fix (parts under $70) takes about 30-45 mins.

You do need some long-handled allen tools and you have to discharge the airbag system by disconnecting the RED connector in the passenger foot-well (I would disconnect the battery ground as well afterwards).

Have fun with that 5-speed!

Jim,
What a GREAT find...congratulations!!!
Just out of curiosity...does your car have heated seats? And is it leather or MBtex?

Enjoy it! :D

Glen,

The car does not have heated seats, however the interior is grey leather.

I have now checked this car out pretty thoroughly, and everything except the front passenger door window works perfectly, even the headlight wiper/washers! The SRS light behaviour seems to match the descriptions you guys have given for slip ring wear. I will do a search for detailed instructions, especially after the discussion of discharging the air bag by disconnecting the RED wire.... Last thing I want is to see an air bag go off in my driveway.

Thanks again for the tips. Jim

Jim,

I expect that your 29 MPG for Interstate highway driving is just about right. I usually get 27, with country two lane driving which means I do some passing which increases thirst. I used to go to Houston and some other places with mine which were strictly Interstate trips. I could get 29 on those trips. Remember you don't have the inefficiencies of a torque converter swallowing more fuel.

My car, mechanically is as you describe yours, but cosmetically I need a windshield and a left front arm rest, and mine is embarassingly dirty right now.

Do you think that these cars are a little shy on bottom end and mid range torque? As far as how mine runs and drives, the lack of low end torque is the only complaint I have, the car seems geared just a little too tall. But I'm still very pleased with it.

I added the sportline sway bars to mine and it made a noticable difference. These are fabulous automobiles.

Glad you had a fun trip,

Curious
 

I have a 190e with the 2.6 M103 engine and a five speed. I was wondering if the transmissions were the same.

I used to own a 5-speed 300E ('86) with parchment leather interior and heated seats. In all the 5-speed 300s I've seen or heard about, I've never come across another with those same two options...I guess it was even more rare than I thought! The car currently resides in Canada with fellow Mshop member, vrsmith.

Someday, I plan to get another to restore :cool:

Aside from the 5 speed manual bonus to mpg, was there anything different to these cars (rear axle ratio, injection system in 88, etc) that lets them get 27-29 mpg? My 87 auto on its best tank came up with 22mpg at 70. :( It is pretty quick, however, so much so that I have never understood other members complaints about acceleration issues on their 87 300Es. Better mileage would be nice, though.

Larry, and guys,

I just lost a long post replying to your comments, so I will repeat it briefly.

I agree the engine is a little light on low end torque, and when I was driving East on I-70, going uphill at altitudes between 8,500 and 10,600 ft. I had to shift into 3rd gear if I got below 60 mph or so to speed up or maintain speed. I sort of attributed the lack of low end thrust to the lack of oxygen. In any case the C230 Kompressor is a stark contrast in low end torque, but like I noted earlier the C230 is lucky to get 26 or 27 mpg on the highway.

I ordered 205/60-15 Michelin Pilot XGT-VR4 tires from Tire Rack today. Should be here Monday. I have attached a photo and will add a few more tonight if this one shows up. Jim

Here is another shot with the doors open. Jim

Here is a front quarter view. Jim

Jim,
Congratulations on the purchase of your car. It is impressive. Did you stumble onto it or did you know of the rarity first and go looking for it? I get under 25mpg. Maybe I should check the odometer. I'm with JCE, I don't know how you can get that kind of mileage. As for the power, I think my car is doing pretty good. There is a 3 mile hill here that is a 1000 foot climb from sea level. Lots of cars bog down on this hill but mine takes it reasonably well in 5th.

Here is a view of the front seat area of the interior. Jim

Vaughn:
The best mileage I was able to attain was 26.2 MPG. On average, I got about 25, same as you. One interesting thing to note...compared to other 300E 5-speeds I've driven, yours feels stronger :)

John:
The 5-speed 300E's were essentially the same as the auto models in terms of fuel injection. The only real difference is the (.80) 5th gear which lets the engine turn a leisurely ~2900 RPM at 80 MPH.

Jim,
Do me a favor. In a few years if you get tired of your car...please, please, PLEASE! get in touch with me. :D

I'm serious! Thanks.

vrsmith,

I will ran my route through MapQuest like I said and the computer says the trip was 2,508 miles, and that does not include some driving around looking for a hotel in Russell, Kansas (Hays was full, no beds so I had to go further East) as well as a few other gas detours and stops for food/nature calls. The odometer says I went 2,528 miles. And the bill says I bought 86.94 gallons of premium fuel. The only error that can exist is in the mileage, and I think that is insignificant (at 2,508 miles, that would be 28.84 mpg). The route I took was a little longer than the MapQuest route I mapped, as I made some slight modifications and detours around St. Louis. I got screwed up and went into the city rather than around it, and there were some serious construction sites along I-70 when you got into the city.

I ran premium 91 octane {(R+M)/2} gas, with fresh transmission and differential fluids, and the tires are 32 psi front, 35 psi rear (which makes the rough ride of the crummy tires worse, but it keeps them cooler and helped me eek out the extra 2,500 miles without incident). The book says the fronts should be no higher than 29 psi. It was reasonably cool, so I only ran the airconditioning from Kansas City to Cleveland. After that it was not called for so I turned it off.

Can't think of anything else that might affect mileage, but Larry says he gets similar mileage on long Interstate highway runs. I am very pleasantly surprised as I was expecting 4 to 6 mpg less, just based on size and weight compared to my other cars.

And I was very aware of how rare the car is. I went to an auction once about 8 years ago and tried to buy a 1986 5-speed, but the price for the car got over my limit quickly. It was higher mileage than the 1988 I just bought, was in rougher condition, and the 1986 ultimately sold for nearly twice the price I just paid. I started looking in earnest for one this summer and scoured the internet until 3 a.m. for weeks in a row, looking at every 300E, anywhere in the country at any price. I was amazed, there are literally thousands of them for sale and I had to ask about the transmissions for ones that did not say they were automatics. And this one showed up. I actually thought it might be a grey market car as I had never actually seen a 1988 with a manual transmission. I did a CarFax on it using one of the CarFax accounts someone posted on this board, and it turned up to be a clean car. And I started a dialogue with the now "previous owner" that led to the sale.

I am still amazed by the whole experience, and the car. Jim

Glen,

I will pass your request on to our 14 year old son, as he has declared he has "dibs" on it already. We have kind of established a routine here that each kid gets one car from Mom and Dad that is the same age as they are, plus or minus 6 months or so, and this one fits the formula for him (as he has already determined). I am not sure if this car really qualifies as the other kids all got Mercedes-Benz cars, but each had at least 200,000 miles. He is anticipating assuming ownership in about 2 1/2 to 3 years, which means my wife and I have to drive the car a lot to make it "qualify" without slighting his older sister and brother.

The previous owner really had some difficulty finding a buyer, which kind of floored me. Jim

Jim,

Get ready for many more offers like Glens. I have received many, one of which I may have been a fool to turn down, but I love the car.

This dialogue is getting me fired up to clean mine up, put in a windshield and the few other cosmetics it needs. It will be difficult to keep it clean this Winter, but if my 240D isn't ready for the AutoWerks opening, the 300E will definitely need to be ready to stand tall for the trip.

Everyone,

I am just as surprised at the fuel mileage that everyone is indicating for their automatic cars as you all are at our fuel mileage with the 5 speeds. I hope I don't insult or hurt anyone's feelings, but that's one of the many reasons that I detest automatics.

One reason I believe that this is so, is that these cars were designed in Germany by Germans for Germans, and Germans typically don't have much use for an automatic transmission in this size car. The automatic is an engineering after thought which is added to a car that has been optimized for a manual transmission. It is added mainly for the US market. In Germany fuel costs about 400% more than in the US. Additionally cars are taxed in Germany based on engine displacement.

The engine/car combination was optimized for the five speed, and for the US market where gas is cheap, there was no need to spend any extra engineering money, when the fuel mileage with automatic was acceptable for it's place in the US market.

During this rambling I went to my records and looked at the original window sticker. It indicates 17 city and 25 highway. I would be interested to see what an '88 automatic car had as EPA estimates on the window sticker. It may be that they just put the same EPA rating on all the 300E's.

I keep a logbook of all service and all fuel stops in chronological order. I calculate fuel mileage at every fuel stop. I am always a bit disappointed when I see 25 or less. I haven't seen less than 25 very many times and that was always when I was doing a bunch of stoplight to stoplight driving. I would have to get my logbook out to verify, but I would be shocked if there is an entry of less than 22.

This all is my theory and opinion.

Have a great day,

I routinely get 25 MPG at 70 - 75 MPH when I take my trips to Chicago from my 1991 300E (automatic). I usually fill up before I leave, reset the trip meter, add some gas in Indiana on the way back, and refill again when I got home. The drive train is very smooth and is filled with synthetic fluid in engine, transmission, and rear differential.

Larry:

Some info about the fuel mileage between manual and automatics.

I am contemplating a SLK 230 Compressor next March and requested some literature from MBUSA.

For that model, the EPA ratings are:
Manual: 20 mpg (city) and 29 mpg (HWY). 0 - 60 in 6.9 s.
Automatic: 23 mpg (city) and 30 mpg (HWY). 0 - 60 in 7.0 s.

With the 320 engine (SLK32):
Manual: 18 mpg (city) and 27 mpg (HWY). 0 - 60 in 6.6 s.
Automatic: 21 mpg (city) and 27 mpg (HWY). 0 - 60 in 6.6 s.

So in this car, the automatic gets better fuel mileage. I have seen similar numbers from other makers as well.

Now for the C230 Compressor, the numbers are closer.
Manual: 19/29
Automatic: 19/28.

I remember reading from Car and Driver (?) that they cannot out-shift the automatic with the 6 spd manual, proving the point MB told them. I believe the tests were done on the C230 Compressor.

I'm sorry to be such a hard headed manual transmission bigot.

Most of the US Automotive rags reflect the sentiment of 90% or so of the American driving public. That is, they like automatics. The articles almost always favor the automatic, because the person writing can't drive a stick very well, or has very little experience with them. This bias shows up in comments.

The automatics are getting much more efficient now than they were in '88 with computer control and other improvements, there are all sorts of things they can do with them.

In '88 I believe there was not near as much technology or concern put toward the automatic by MB.

Like I say I'm a manual bigot and admit it. I don't care what they
EVER do with automatic transmission technology, I still want an automatic.

If my casket has an automatic transmission, I will come back and haunt everyone that had anything to do with the decision. Once I'm in that casket, I figure if I go upstairs thereafter, I will be met with a great car with a manual transmission. If I go downstairs, it will definitely be an automatic, this is enough to make me behave myself. The thought of eternity with an automatic transmission is VERY scary.

Stick Shifts Forever,

I agree wholeheartedly with Larry. That is why I spent so many hours on my computer scouring the internet for a manual 300E.

No matter how sophisticated the automatic transmissions become, they will never be able to see what is coming and set you up to be on the right part of the torque curve for what you want to do when you get there. And if they get better at responding to manual inputs that might be an improvement, but I see no way they can mimmic a heel and toe downshift and get the timing the way it needs to be to keep the rear wheels where you want them and doing what you want them to do.

The 1999 C230 Kompressor/Sport has a terrible response to manual inputs, mainly because the computer evaluates your input based on other inputs from sensors and then acts. Nasty, unacceptable, non-standard delays that really detract from controlling the car's position and attitude on the road. I was so unnerved by it I took the car back to the dealer and asked to have it checked out. I was told that is the way it is. It seems the 1998 E300D TurboDiesel has the same set up, so I rarely move the lever out of drive when out and about. A manual would really make that car perfect.

Automatics have a place on earth I suppose, I just don't approve of them in my driveway. Jim

Jim et al., - since most F1 cars are using steering-wheel mounted "shift paddles" how do they deal with matching the RPMs & blipping the throttle like we do when driving a manual car with heel & toe?

With some of the "Tiptronic" trannys in their "sport" mode, do they do the RPM matching automatically, so the driver only needs to worry about selecting the correct gear?

:-) neil
1988 360TE AMG
1993 500E

A while back I was questioning my love of standards and disdain of automatics, with the support of my friends and family. I had the opportunity to test this when I got a job traveling which came with a car, a typical company car, that all I will say was an automatic, my true feelings toward that car would get be banished from the internet. I figured now was the time to test myself and my feelings. What it did was re-affirm them, I just didn't like the car doing stuff on its own.

The next test was the advent of the “touch shifter.” All it really is is a trick shifter. I had one in a rental and must admit it does satisfy my minimum requirements of a transmission of control of shifting. Torque converters aren’t that bad, all they do is use gas.

I read a newspaper article, should have kept it, that talked about this exact thing. It mentioned something like 95% of Americans have autos and 85% of Europeans have sticks. The only anomaly was the really little econo-cars had autos cause they were cheaper to make, I'm thinking maybe cause of the linkages.

How about a “smart” standard transmission? The transmission would adjust the engine speed based on shifter position, kind of like a super syncro;)

Re: F1 paddles. I know up-shifting the transmission will shut off the engine for a little bit to match engine speed, don’t know about down shifting. I do know the transmission is hardier to handle the shock.

Yes, the newer automatic transmissions shift based on an electric signal, typically from the computer. The F1 cars simply use driver input on a switch. The newer Benz automatics can be shifted up or down by the driver by moving the lever. The computers do all sorts of things, and the electrical input allows the shift control to be on the steering wheel, on the floor, or you could put a switch somewhere to be actuated by your nose if you wanted to.

AS I SAID BEFORE, I DON'T CARE! I want a clutch and a shifter. I ENJOY using the clutch and shifting the transmission. If I do say so myself, I am very good at it. I have had people make comments like; "wow, this car shifts smooth, I wouldn't mind driving a stick that shifts this smooth". To this I tell them that with a manual, it's the driver that makes it smooth. I take a lot of pride in my stick shift ability. A few of the guys at the office claim that I am the "Stick Shift Master", I eat that up. Typically when someone enjoys doing something, they are good at it. I'm good at it because I enjoy it.

I've had people say, "well you drive on the highway mostly so I guess it's okay". No, driving on the highway doesn't offer any opportunities to shift. They say "well what if you get in traffic?" I say THAT'S GREAT then I get a chance to shift.

Add to that the expense of an automatic, the frequent maintenance of an automatic, and the pain in the A$$ everytime you have to work on a car with an automatic, and I DON'T WANT ONE.

I LOVE MY STICK SHIFT CARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can't agree with you more, Larry. My dad used to get me slushboxes, but now that i am on my own, my cars are all stick shifts!

4 speed only on my W123, but totally trouble free......

Is it theorotically possible to replace an automatic trans with a manual one on an older 124, i.e., rather than doing a rebuild of the auto when its time, import a manual one and switch. im assuming that the 124 body of manual and auto are the same.
Is it practicaly possible? im unsure of how the clutch pedal would be installed or if the cost to exceed the price of a used with manual.

There were a couple of posts a while back regarding the conversion from auto to manual transmissions. The general consensus was that it can be done but is likely time consuming. It may be cheaper to sell what you have and buy a suitable W124 5 speed. Are you better off taking you car and converting it for $5000 or selling it and putting $5000 more into an authentic 5 speed. If you are experienced with mechanics it helps. Having a donor car is a big help. Your car will be out of action for some time. One fellow said that he did it and that it was easy. Of course, another guy did an amazing sway of a Buick V6 into a 300D and he said it was easy too. (It doesn't look easy to me.) Good luck with what ever you decide to do.

This would be a practical conversion IF you had the entire donor car setting next to the recipient. There are many small pieces that it is difficult to plan on that you will need. I personally would not attempt such a conversion any other way.

Good luck,

As far as you right-front window ... you might want to try checking the switch in the console first. After owning five MBZs I have often found the window switch to be the problem. The tend to collect dirt.

If it is the switch, they are easy to clean and reassemble, but there are several tiny springs and parts you need to watch out for. I usually perform this over a plate with high edges.

Jeff

Haasman,

I willl be removing the switch and checking its function with a multimeter tomorrow. I agree with your diagnosis as when I push the switch, absolutely nothing happens. If there were a short or something in the window motor, I would expect either a blown fuse or at least a flicker of the lights or something. I will keep you posted of progress. New tires come on Monday and then I will see if the roughness is all tires (and since they are running on the wear bars, I expect the tires are the major source of noise and vibration).

Thanks for the help, Jim

Another thought on the windows switches ... a soft rag, such as an old bath towel works great to keep the "tiny little parts" bouncing and dropping all over.

While you have one switch assembly out, you might as well do them all. It doesn't take that much more time once the console is exposed. I am always amazed how much dirt gets into the switch assemblies.

I thought about larger tires for my '91 300E. Instead I bought Bridgestone RE950's in the standard 195/65-15 size. I didn't want to trade-off fuel mileage for the slight increase in corning performance. BTW, these tires a great! Going through standing water and general wet roads is next to amazing. The tech at tire dealer who installed them repeatedly told me that they really perform after about 300 to 600 miles. He was right. And to think I was going to spend more money for lower performing Michelins.

Jeff

Larry bible once wrote:

"One reason I believe that this is so, is that these cars were designed in Germany by Germans for Germans, and Germans typically don't have much use for an automatic transmission in this size car. The automatic is an engineering after thought which is added to a car that has been optimized for a manual transmission. It is added mainly for the US market. In Germany fuel costs about 400% more than in the US. Additionally cars are taxed in Germany based on engine displacement.

The engine/car combination was optimized for the five speed, and for the US market where gas is cheap, there was no need to spend any extra engineering money, when the fuel mileage with automatic was acceptable for it's place in the US market. "

I would like to reason this position alternatively using pure reason based on a definition of the "luxury car". It is likely that the 300e is considered a luxury sedan in Germany, certainly so in North America; the nature of a luxury car is its automation, a car that drives itself, regulates its own temperature, one-touch buttons to adjust the seat, wipe you nose automatically etc., so as you are driving you can concentrate on buddah rather than the mechanics of driving. 124's in the 500 vintage are meant to be sporty as in manual but the 300e is luxury as in lazy ass. Therefore, the automatic trnasmission is not an afterthought but rather the foundation of the category; if some want standard, they are available naturally, but as you are driving your automatic 300e think of yourself as royalty to whom gear shifting is beneath.

or perhaps as a dinosaur waiting for the great extinction: your automatic luxury car is a testament to a legacy never to be seen again, to be fondly remembered as we drive plastic electric cars along pre-programmed routes to our oddly familiar jobs at state regulated speeds.

Mercedes Fred,

I have read your posting about ten times, and I am still in awe of your closing statement. Jim

Mercedes Fred,

Whatever you think. I spent a total of about seven weeks in Europe last year, most of it in Germany. Being the MB fanatic that I am, I looked inside most every MB that I walked past. A large majority of 124's were manual transmissions, and few of them had engines as large as the 3 liter, M103. The 300E is one of the faster 124's in Europe. Remember fuel costs about four times as much in Europe.

I stand by my theory that the 124 car was designed with a manual transmission in mind.

For those who enjoy the mindless experience of an automatic transmission, I'm very happy for them. I HEAVILY prefer an automatic, and detest driving anything with an automatic. The only thing I detest MORE about an automatic than driving it, is working on it, or paying for a new one.

So, as to my own personal philosophy, I am very pleased that those that like their automatic transmissions have them. I'm even more pleased that we have the 1,000 or so precious manual transmissioned 300E's in the US. I'm even more pleased that I'm fortunate enough to have one.

Each to his own,

Larry:

I wished to have a manual trans for my mb, but good luck getting one in north america, etc., as you have pointed out

however, my defence of the mb engineering of automatic transmissions is based on aesthetics, as the auto tranny is an integral part of the luxury car experience, not an afterthought but a "from scratch" engineering strategy which aims to give a car the character and feel of luxury. However, I recognize the the virtue of manuals, as you are more connected to the car and save gas than the distancing effect of automation. I had no choice but to go automatic, so i might as well enjoy the ride...

I believe that in Germany, and all of Europe for that matter, the 124's are just Fords or Chevy's - nothing luxury about them. When you start inching up in to the S class cars and the Limos, now you're talking luxury.

The bigger "luxury" cars were designed around the slushbox, while the "common" sedan is usually a stick. Now what would be nice would be to have a 4-speed manny tranny bolted to the hind end of my 4.5 :).

I cannot comment on what people in Germany or Europe actually beleive, or whether these beleifs consitute the intent of the design teams who invented the 124, but it would be difficult to imagine that a company that sells cars internationally to varied markets for a hefty price with a reputation for quality will somehow overlook an automatic transmission as a mere provincial detail thrown in for the boorish colonials who consider a chevette with air conditioning to be a luxury car. The whims of mb's domestic market mean little unles you actually drive in europe daily. mb builds cars for a truly international market .

Just think of when automatic transmissions came to american cars years and years ago. With names like powerglide etc, push button trannies and what not.

This was considered aluxury item.

As we all know, most vehicles in europe do not have the same luxuries we consider standard equipment here in the states.

Leather is an option in europe, but not usually on luxury cars here in the states. you either get it with leather or you don't get it at all.

I personally love a manual transmission, but when you have to sit in stop start traffic most of yoru day, you will then really appreciate the efforlessness of dricing an auto tranny car.

I love shifting gears, I just hating doing it in stop start traffic.

Alon

Mike,

I might be mistaken as to the exact model and engine, but about 4 years or more ago, there was an article in the Star magazine about a big body Benz, with a manual transmission.

I'm pretty sure it was a 4.5, but I am very sure that it was the same body as your car. The article talked about buying the car with 250,000 miles, and the fact that it had a manual.

Again, I might be mistaken, it might have been a six cylinder car. Nonetheless it was a really neat car with a manual transmission.

Everyone,

Also, as far as a manual transmission in traffic goes, the only thing I like about getting stuck in stop and go, jammed up freeway traffic is that I get a chance to use the clutch and stick just that much more.

I realize that to most everyone on this forum and everywhere else that I am a NUT, but I ENJOY handling a clutch and stick. You're either a terminal, true stick shift lover, or you're not.


Additionally, if MB is such an automatic transmission specialist, how come they used automatic transmissions made by others, such as Borg-Warner, until not too many years ago? HmmMMM???

I am stuck with my daughters 300D with an automatic. ALL my other MB's have manuals. If they didn't have manuals, I wouldn't own them.

This is why they make different cars with different equipment, because we all like different things. The world would be pretty dull otherwise.

Stick and clutch forever,

Larry/all,

I always thought MBZ (post '70s anyway) was a well-regarded slushbox manufacturer? My brother's '80 Porsche 928S has an MBZ auto, as I recall.

As to the Mercedes philosophy, having been to Germany a couple of times now I feel confident that the manufacturer prefers you drive a manual transmission car, for the increased control it gives you as an operator. The Germans take their driving VERY seriously, and having a stick affords quite a bit more control in the hands of a qualified driver.

Maybe because we have so few of those here in the US, we prefer the automatics we buy. I know I wish there were a reasonable way to stuff a 5 or 6 speed in my 500:D

I'm sure that the REASON many Germans prefer a manual is not only their preference for driving a manual, but maybe more importantly is that gasoline costs about four times as much in Europe as it does in the US.

The extra mile or two per gallon that a competent manual transmission driver can get with the manual is very important with $4 or $5 per gallon petrol.

Have a great day,