Service from He.... - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

mbzman · #16 11-22-2011, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Wyatt

You are 100% correct.

However, all we have here is third party information. Can you tell me what is meant by "idle adjust" on the repair order? I thought so.

I don't know what that means, it's simply obfuscation by the op.

Most of the posters on this thread are *****ing about the cost, yet we don't know what parts exactly are involved and what had to be done to fix the xar so it would pass smog. Only the shop and the vehicle owner know that, that's why I suggested posting a copy of the repair order. I won't hold my breath.

Next ask for an estimate or get your son in law to do the work.

By law the owner has to authorize to the work being done on the car. Shouldn't the signed R.O. also have the estimate cost of parts and labour? There is also going to be some variation with what you will end of paying for said job or service from region to region.

mbzman · #17 11-22-2011, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Wyatt

Good way to get a trespass warning, it's private property and the op isn't the owner of the vehicle in question.

If I went back in with the owner to clarify the bill and voice concerns about the bill and was told to leave I probably wouldn't ever bother doing business with that shop again. Dealing with customers that want clarification and aren't satisfied is the nature of doing business.

Tomguy · #18 11-22-2011, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

Sounds about right to me. Oil change + spark plugs + mixture adjust is easily $600 in materials and labor at a shop. Heck just the materials for all of that is probably close to $125, fuel filter is not exactly easy to replace. Even around here the shops are around $105 an hour.

$950 is cheap for a series of seal replacements like that, thats a ton of labor. Anyone who has done those things on the transmission knows its a pain and time consuming to do properly.

Actually, even before I read the other posts in this thread, I thought the same thing. I thought "For Cali, at a presumably competent shop, that actually sounds like a good rate". Have you done a fuel filter on a car before? If you don't have to drop the tank you're lucky (most MBs, at least the older ones like the w126, you don't). But that doesn't make it easy with old fuel lines that probably fall apart on removal of the filter and the shot mounts like Edward pointed out. It's a fair rate, not the best, but a fair rate. But the trans - I think that was a steal. You need to do a fair amount of work to replace the front seal on the trans, considering last I checked you have to remove it from the engine. I think most of the people saying that the OP was ripped off have not used a mechanic in quite some time for larger repairs. Car work is EXPENSIVE. I haven't had anyone touch my vehicles in quite some time for this reason.

cbc atl · #19 11-22-2011, 02:29 AM

So, his car has the same KE ignition system as your CE and could have the same trans. How do you have your plugs and oil changed. Maybe you can help the old man out and do this for him next time; bet he has a few stories to tell while ya'll are out there.

A couple of contractor trash bags to catch the oil, oil filter, plugs, trans oil, gasket, trans filter, couple of bolt and washers would probably be less than $100. Guess you will not have to replace those seals again in 30,000 miles. Then you could wash it for him too and then go for a nice ride.

Then you would not have to give that shop a fU(#ing dime.

Oh, and see if it has that diagnostic plug like yours that you can put a multi-meter on and set the duty cycle. Look at the rotor and dist cap as someone mentioned above and maybe even replace his coil and wires. No need to let a shop do that either.

Edward Wyatt · #20 11-22-2011, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbzman

If I went back in with the owner to clarify the bill and voice concerns about the bill and was told to leave I probably wouldn't ever bother doing business with that shop again. Dealing with customers that want clarification and aren't satisfied is the nature of doing business.

That's a long way from "I would go back and raise hell with them face to face".

The nature of doing business means that indy owned shops don't have to deal with people like you that raise hell, or demand refunds for a job well done like the op. I can be sekective about what the shop takes in, my time is worth money. Spending my time defending myself to skinflints is not good for the bottom line. Good bye and good riddance.

This is the reason why I don't work on older MB models for new clients. It's no different than whining that the local diner charges $6.99 for breakfast that has $1.78 worth of eggs, bacon and ham. You wouldn't take you own eggs and ham to a diner and ask the cook to fix them up for you, but I guess it's ok to raise hell with the poor grease monkey who has to make a living.

Not only that, the op is a third party who doesn't have any business asking for a refund or questioning what a private business charges someone else for work done.

Edward Wyatt · #21 11-22-2011, 07:42 AM

[QUOTE=cbc atl;2832669]

A couple of contractor trash bags to catch the oil, oil filter, plugs, trans oil, gasket, trans filter, couple of bolt and washers would probably be less than $100. Guess you will not have to replace those seals again in 30,000 miles. Then you could wash it for him too and then go for a nice ride.

Then you would not have to give that shop a fU(#ing dime.

QUOTE]

Yeah, it's alright for you to use trash bags to catch the oil and filters, but I have to pay to dispose of those items. I guess it's ok to pollute the in the name of not giving the shop a fU***** dime, right?

Replacing "those seals" involves removing the transmission, ever done that before? I didn't think so, or else you would know it takes specialized equipment and lots of time, not a Harbor Freight set of sockets and reading MB forums on the internet.

Edward Wyatt · #22 11-22-2011, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbc atl

Oh, and see if it has that diagnostic plug like yours that you can put a multi-meter on and set the duty cycle. Look at the rotor and dist cap as someone mentioned above and maybe even replace his coil and wires. No need to let a shop do that either.

Unless you want the car to pass a smog test and run correctly. The proper way to set the mixture on a CIS car is to use a four gas analyzer, anything else is just a good guess.

E150GT · #23 11-22-2011, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Wyatt

The prices seem a bit high, but not outrageous. I imagine that the cost of doing business in over regulated California is quite high.

No matter the state, the shop has to PAY to dispose of the fuel filter, oil filter and oil. It also has to pay for uniforms, building lease/mortgage, shop equipment, tools, an Alldata type of service, shop supplies, rags, fender covers, electricity, phone service, payroll, workmans comp, and possibly health insurance. So the shop simply didn't make an obscene profit by charging 5.4 hrs to do an LOF service, fuel filter change, sparkplug change, and CO setup.

Changing the fuel filter on these cars wasn't a gravy job when they were new. Today with deteiorated fuel lines and hoses, the task must be done with the utmost care. I could see it being billed out as an hour of labor to be fair to the shop.

A proper service takes an hour to do on these cars, they also take a hair over two gallons of oil and a somewhat expensive filter. It's Mercedes, not a Kia. I can see an hour of labor there.

We are left with 2.4 hours of labor:

The man paid for the knowledge in addition to the above mentioned items. His car is fixed isn't it? Most shops wouldn't know how or have the equipment to set up a CIS fuel system. I assume the car was running poorly and that is why the plugs and fuel filter were changed. Consider yourself luck that they didn't condemn the $$$ plug wires and/or equally $$$ cap and rotor. Figure 1.4 hours to inspect the ignition system and replace parts as needed. Most euro shops use a scope before and after changes to make sure the secondary igntion is up snuff. How many of you shadetree guys have one of those in your garage?

A good shop would inspect the secondary ignition and replace parts as needed before moving on to a fuel mixture adjestment. That is what they did.

An hour of labor to set up the fuel injection is pretty fair, considering the car has to pass smog and should be done with a four gas analyzer that again, none of you shadetree guys own. They cost thousands of dollars.

I think the real issure here is about the economics of spending almost what the car is worth in repairs, not what the shop charged.

Fuel filter is cake on this car. So is the oil change.

dubadaddy · #24 11-22-2011, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Wyatt

Obviously you like to denigrate mechanics, it's obvious.

Not a mechanic, I own a shop and a parts store. What do you do for a living?

Experience does not mean that my guys can remember the head bolt torque specs on a M20 BMW motor, that's why we have AllData.

You obviously share your FIL's regret over spending too much money on a old clunker, next time you should have him ask for an estimate as required by law for repairs over $100.

I charge an hourly rate, and also use a labor guide to arrive at my labor charges. Just like the dealer or any other indy does. What you and others don't want to admit is that sometimes on an old car it takes longer than what the labor guide quotes for a job. For example, the fuel filter on a gas W126 takes much longer than when the car was new or else one can damage the other related components. Hence, I charge 1.0 hrs, if the customer doesn't like it they can go somewhere else.

I don't need to work on older cars and do it as a courtesy for established customers. Honestly, most people that drive an older MB have your penny pinching attitude and it's not good busness to deal with your kind.

Shame on me? Lol, shame on your FIL for not asking for an estimate. Sounds like his car was a good candidate for cash for clunkers.

Just because you can do repairs in your driveway doesn't mean you can dictate what a shop should charge based on how much a set of plugs cost at Wal-Mart and how long it took you to change them.

If you know so much about the auto repair industry, why didn't you do the work for him? Lol, because you don't have the proper tools and know how.

Go ahead and price out a four gas analyzer and a scope and get back to us.

WOW, I have never seen anyone as bitter as this Edward Wyatt guy based upon this and all posts by him. Glad not to be in his area, what ever that is.

First let me clarify by saying I would have loved to have done the work however, with me working and located temporarily in LV and my father-in-law in California I would have difficulty in doing the work.

I am happy to post work order and paperwork from smog shop and will do so later today.

cbc atl · #25 11-22-2011, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubadaddy

WOW, I have never seen anyone as bitter as this Edward Wyatt guy based upon this and all posts by him. Glad not to be in his area, what ever that is.

First let me clarify by saying I would have loved to have done the work however, with me working and located temporarily in LV and my father-in-law in California I would have difficulty in doing the work.

I am happy to post work order and paperwork from smog shop and will do so later today.

Yea he is full of S#!t and just makes up stuff to try to justify his way. When you use the contractor bags to catch the oil or transmission fluid or coolant then you just take it to the local autoparts store or Walmart to recycle.

He would have you think with a recommendation to catch the oil like that means that you necessarily dump it in a lake. Again he is really FU(#ed up.

Maybe after the next 3 or 4K miles you will be closer and can help your father in law out; everyone is busy and trying to make it work and it probably kind of sucks having to be remote right now.

Hope you are home for Thanksgiving and able to spend it with your family.

mbzman · #26 11-22-2011, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Wyatt

That's a long way from "I would go back and raise hell with them face to face".

The nature of doing business means that indy owned shops don't have to deal with people like you that raise hell, or demand refunds for a job well done like the op. I can be sekective about what the shop takes in, my time is worth money. Spending my time defending myself to skinflints is not good for the bottom line. Good bye and good riddance.

This is the reason why I don't work on older MB models for new clients. It's no different than whining that the local diner charges $6.99 for breakfast that has $1.78 worth of eggs, bacon and ham. You wouldn't take you own eggs and ham to a diner and ask the cook to fix them up for you, but I guess it's ok to raise hell with the poor grease monkey who has to make a living.

Not only that, the op is a third party who doesn't have any business asking for a refund or questioning what a private business charges someone else for work done.

I have no problem with using an independent shop for a job that I need done if my time is limited. I did not ever say the job was not done well. As I said before, the first service of the oil change and tune-up seems quite a bit high as that service in my area at a good indy is about $400. But, you have to see that there is going to be a variation in prices from region to region, which I stated as well. Depending on the local economy of the state and region, the shops reputation, how busy the shop is etc. may dictate the price you will end up paying. The OP is looking after his father in law who is 92 years old. I don't see the problem with helping him out.

Edward Wyatt · #27 11-22-2011, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbc atl

Yea he is full of S#!t and just makes up stuff to try to justify his way. When you use the contractor bags to catch the oil or transmission fluid or coolant then you just take it to the local autoparts store or Walmart to recycle.

He would have you think with a recommendation to catch the oil like that means that you necessarily dump it in a lake. Again he is really FU(#ed up.

.

What am I making up?

I do have to pay to dispose of filters and fluids, you don't want to know how much it costs when there is cross-contamination.

I have never seen anyone use a trash bag to collect waste fluids from a car, logic dictates that most people would use the trash bag to dispose of the old filters. Fluids are caught in a approved container, and most folks should be aware that they are sniffed prior to letting you dump them. That is so you don't contaminate the oil with coolant or vice versa. No business is going to let anyone waltz in with a trash bag full of who knows what and let them simply dump it in the waste container.

It's a dirty little secret everyone is guilty of, don't try to fool people by claiming that you would take two gallons(in this case) of used oil to Wal Mart in a trash bag for disposal.

Did I say you were going to dump the oil in a lake? That's called projection.

After reading your posts and considering your potty mouth and insults, I can see why most professionals have quit making posts on this forum. Arthur Dalton comes to mind.

Why bother, all I'm trying to do is point out my side of the business. If you have to resort to insults and name calling over the facts I have presented, then I can only assume that there must be a guilty conscience there somewhere.

Edward Wyatt · #28 11-22-2011, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E150GT

Fuel filter is cake on this car. So is the oil change.

Sure, as a diy project it's not bad.

I have to run a business, and warranty my work. Shadetree work is not even in the same ballpark. Just because you changed the filter on your own car doesn't mean they are all cake. Fuel under 70 psi will find a leak if there is onem and I have to carry the liability when we service the filter on a car.

You shadetree guys get to come on here and ask questions if a job goes wrong, in my case I lose lots of money. That's why I charge 1.0 hours, if someone balks at paying that, then they should drive something less expensive to repair.

Edward Wyatt · #29 11-22-2011, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbc atl

So, his car has the same KE ignition system as your CE and .

For the noobs, the above comment is wrong.

KE refers to the fuel injection, as in KE-Jetronic. The K stands for the German word for continuous: "Kontinuierlick", and the E is for electronically controlled. In contrast to the early K-Jetronic used in the '70s that was a pure mechanical system.

The igniton system is refered to as the "EZL".

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

E150GT · #30 11-22-2011, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Wyatt

Sure, as a diy project it's not bad.

I have to run a business, and warranty my work. Shadetree work is not even in the same ballpark. Just because you changed the filter on your own car doesn't mean they are all cake. Fuel under 70 psi will find a leak if there is onem and I have to carry the liability when we service the filter on a car.

You shadetree guys get to come on here and ask questions if a job goes wrong, in my case I lose lots of money. That's why I charge 1.0 hours, if someone balks at paying that, then they should drive something less expensive to repair.

I understand the fuel that can leak on that car. I owned a 420sel. I decided early in my ownership that I would change the filter. I had no idea what I was doing. I had a LOT of trouble keeping the fuel from leaking. In fact I struggled with a leaking problem pretty much the whole time I owned the car. When I finally got around to addressing the problem instead of just tightening it up whenever it leaked. I did the repair at the shop with my mechanic. When he showed me how easy it was I felt so stupid. I understand that you are in business to make money and you have make enough to cover mishaps. I only commented because I know those two are easy as cake and can be done without a huge cost. If you know what you are doing, then you should have no problem performing the repair and not worrying about losing money. I dont know how you can lose money on an oil change. If the rest of the fuel system is in bad shape, that can be relayed to the customer before work is performed and if they refuse to repair the affected area, then they are at fault and not you. Kind of like when I did change the fuel filter, I did cause a leak in some of the rubber lines when I disturbed them. Had I dropped the car off I am positive my mechanic would have called me and let me know that they needed to be replaced and I would have to buy that also. If I refused and they broke thats my problem. People do have a choice. I chose this weekend not to use my mechanic or another I called to replace the oil cooler lines on my sd. The first mechanic I called would not install my aftermarket oil lines I had already purchased and would only use the dealer item. He quoted $300 for labor. My mechanic had no problem using my lines but assumed no responsibility for them. He quoted me $200 for the lines. I chose to do them myself.