Anybody have pics of a w140 with an EMPTY engine bay? to fit a turbo OM602
 

I need to confirm something... anybody have pics of the engine bay WITHOUT the engine? Thanks

Try this

Ey thanks!!!! Which portion does the engine mount to? Do you have a top view? :)

Looks like it mounts to the horseshoe shaped mounts on each side of the engine bay, then a 3rd point behind the transmission.

-J

Any thoughts about "rerouting" that crossmember? I have an engine with a different oil sump configuration. Initial plan of attack is cutting the crossmember to clear the pan, then welding in a brace to go around the sump, can do it so the brace goes both fore and aft of the sump. Something like an "O" instead of a "C"...

What else is welded on the crossmember? Are any of the control arms mounted to it?

What type of engine? If its gas or modern diesel you're in for a small engineering feat to pull off sensors/computers to make it run.

its a turbo 602, afaik there are no electronics involved... :) We're just worried about the actual mounting. There are 2 crossmembers, I think modifying the rear one is acceptable? But I need some input before we commit. The other stuff that may get in the way are the tie rod and steering damper.
A member got back to me about a 602 that he disassembled... I might be able to get an oil pan and pickup tube. BUT, if mounting the current engine as is is doable... then I won't be needing the sump. here's the engine in question... it's a turbo 602 from a korean SUV
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...9112012014.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...9112012015.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...9112012016.jpg

Even if you could reshape the rear crossmember inboard of the LCA aft attachments, what do you do with the center link that runs parallel?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29...k/A90F1835.jpg

Sixto
87 300D

Can you measure from the transmission flange to the crossmember in the car then compare to with the distance from the transmission flange to the forward edge of the sump in that Ssangyong 602?

Sixto
87 300D

I'll try to visit the engine shop this week to get measurement... visually though I think the sump will sit right smack on the crossmember. Those links are gonna be a problem.
Are there any "issues" if we re-shape the center link to clear the pan? It's gonna have a "deeper" indent. I don't know if there's a "rule" as to the allowable angles for this modification. Don't want the center-link buckling.
Believe it or not, it's cheaper to modify/fabricate here than to source and ship parts. :)
Exploring my options. I want to finally put an end to this w140 saga. hehe

UPDATE...
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...9252012008.jpg
here's the pic of the transmission flange's proximity to the sump... this'll definitely hit the rear cross member. Is the oil pan too deep in general?
Here's another shot... there's a big part of the sump protruding to the side... haha
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...9252012006.jpg

here's an optional readily available oil pan... but its the wrong shape again I think...
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...9252012010.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...9252012011.jpg

What are the main differences between a w124 603 and a w140 603 oil pan? any pictures of BOTH?
They never made a 602 for the w140 right? So an oil pan from a Mercedes 602(w124,w201) wouldn't necessarily fit the w140 correct?

Best recourse is to either reroute the cross member and the centerlink... OR fabricate an oil pan.
Any opinions? This will be made to fit one way or another. So no walk away comments ok? :) hahaha

I've already made a small deposit on the engine... it ran ok when we tested it. fired right up. Will post a vid.

603.970 (90-91 350SD/L) which is indistinguishable from 603.971 (92-95 300SD/S350)

http://www.w124performance.com/image...e/603.970c.jpg

603.960 (87 300D/TD) which is indistinguishable from 603.961 (86-87 300SDL)

http://www.w124performance.com/image...ine_stand4.jpg

http://www.w124performance.com/image...ine_stand3.jpg

You can put a flat plate in place of the side sump in the .96. You'll lose 1-1.5 quarts of sump capacity.

I'm not aware that the 140 came with a 602.

A 602.960 (87 190D turbo) or a 602.961 (90-93 300D 2.5) will fit in a 140. I stake my neighbor's cat on it. To make it work without modifying the sump or rear crossmember, you might have to move the transmission forward. For that matter, the same is probably true in a 124. The 300D 2.5/250D transmission flange is further forward than in a 300D. For that matter, the Euro 200D transmission flange is further forward still.

Modifying the center link isn't as straightforward as offsetting it in the straight ahead position. Turn it from lock to lock to see whether the pitman and idler arms hit the sump. Looks to me from the second picture in post #11 that the idler arm will smack into the sump with minimal right rudder. No amount of modifying the center link will prevent that. But I still think you might be able to mount the engine far enough aft that you have to modify at most the trailing edge of the rear crossmember, not the leading edge and steering gear.

I have a sense of your labor costs but shipping a Balikbayan Box from the west coast to Manila is $50-60. You can probably find an oil pump and oil pan for $100-150. That's dinner for 6 at HEAT :)

Sixto
87 300D

Your INFO is priceless!!!!! Things are starting to fall into place! :)
I have a lead on an oil pan from a forum member. So It's really happening now.
THE SIMPLIFICATION process of the W140 begins...

Thanks!!! Will be needing all the help I can get.
The transmission is next... it has sat like that ever since the first flood... who knows what condition it's in. :( It sunk a second time... did I mention that? haha)

Brought home the engine today
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...9262012002.jpg
Garret Honeywell turbo
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...y/09262012.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...9262012006.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...9262012007.jpg
Bosch IP
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...9262012003.jpg
Head is stamped "Made in Germany"... it has the injectors tilted to the front of the engine.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...9262012008.jpg

That's an odd angle between compressor outlet and manifold inlet. Does the charge go through an intercooler in the OE application?

I wonder what the electrical connector into the governor housing is for.

Is there anything in the recess inboard of the engine shutoff actuator when US IPs have the control rod sensor connector? Just a recessed area?

Sixto
87 300D

You're right about the angle, didn't think about an inter cooler till you mentioned it, may very well have had an inter cooler...

The guy said it was a TPS, I don't know for what though... maybe the tranny? There's a rod that goes through the IP and to the sensor, it coincides with throttle input.

Yes, it's just a recess... couldn't poke through it. What was the control rod sensor for?

Should I try and install an intercooler? There may be space for one I'm not sure.

The 95-99 S300, a W140 with a turbo 606 not sold in the US, had an intercooler.

TPS might be for an electronic transmission.

Sixto
87 300D

Nice, where was the intercooler mounted... gotta search the net for that one.

I know of 1 W140 in the US in which the 603 was replaced with a turbo 606 from a W210 complete with body and bumper modifications to fit the W210 intercooler.

The control rod sensor is used by EDS to modulate EGR and ARV based on this surrogate for engine load... or something like that. All it's good for is leaking from an o-ring that can only be replace by tearing apart the IP.

Sixto
87 300D

MB went with inclined injectors to improve performance, reduce consumption and emissions, yadda yadda... IIRC the first US application was the '87 190D turbo. Other US 190Ds have vertical injectors. If not the '87 190D turbo, it was the '90 300D 2.5 and '90 350SDL. The prechambers are different to accommodate nozzle holders with different thread pitch and location - fine and by the firing end vs coarse and further up in vertical injectors. The injector lines are a little bit different as well but some folks bend injector lines for vertical injectors to fit inclined injectors. Glow plugs are different between inclined and vertical injectors so make sure you get the right ones.

Sixto
87 300D

Thanks for the info... so its an improvement? I hope there's less noise besides all that. I have a stash of glow plugs and injector nozzles for the 87 wagon that I never got to use... and will never get to use. :)

As far as I know everything is improved with the angled injection.

here are pics of the 602 sump I ordered (still waiting for it to arrive)
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...cry/602ump.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...y/602sump3.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...y/602sump2.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...y/603legth.jpg
The "gap" on the 603 is 6 bolts wide... mounted on the w140 this clears the rear cross member and the steering links/damper...

On the 602 however... this "gap" is only 5 bolts wide... so as Sixto has pointed out, the tranny will have to move forward, and the trailing edge of the rear crossmember will have to be modified.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...sumpLENGTH.jpg

M104 sump
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...0112012002.jpg
However... curiosity got the better of me so I took a picture of the m104 sump that came from the car... it also just had a 5 bolt wide gap... similar to that of the 602... I do hope I don't have to modify the crossmember...

Do you have an oil pump and pick-up to work with the new pan?

Sixto
87 300D

Yep, I ordered the pickup tube with the pan. Didn't think to get the oil pump... should I have? the oil pump is easy enough to source here I think. I hope. :)

Is it possible that the M104 gasser sump will bolt to the 603?

Not really sure... but I do remember reading somewhere that it was possible. I could be wrong though. Would've tried it if I had a 603 to install.

Likely. I had a 603.971 that came to me used with a 104 prefix part number. I'm not aware of an M102.5 though :)

Sixto
87 300D

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...0282012005.jpg
temporarily mated the engine and tranny for test fitting
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...0282012022.jpg
only minimal front crossmember alterations are needed...
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...0282012023.jpg
not cramped at all... :) Have to fabricate a longer shroud to cover the fan...

The oil pickup tube I got from a 602 equipped Benz didn't fit the oil pump that came with my engine... so we're gonna modify/shorten the tube in my engine instead.

All that's needed so far for a clean install are the fabricated engine arms and a little bit of front crossmember modification at its trailing edge... just to clear one corner of the sump. The transmission mount was not modified in any way so the prop shaft didn't have to be touched...

The only major hiccup now is we can't remove the torque converter from the M104... I can't rotate the engine to access the TC bolts. This is the first time I have tried rotating it since the flood 2-3 years ago... it's seized up pretty bad. I removed the spark plugs and poured used oil in the cylinders hoping to loosen something up... will try again later with a breaker bar... any suggestions?

I test fitted the radiator and shroud, it seems the fan position on the 602/603 are off-center more toward the passenger side as compared to the gasser ones. So DID the diesel w140s have a different fan shroud? I guess this also applies to the w124s.
Anybody notice this? Can anybody confirm? Thanks

Yes and deal with it :)

The 603 fan tips, at least in the 124 and 126, extend to starboard beyond the radiator core as if the starboard end tank benefited from airflow. Something like 15% of the radiator core on the port side isn't covered by the shroud in a 124. I'm sure your latero can whip up a shroud easily but I'd be tempted to hang a Spal fan or two directly on the radiator with a manual override switch for duty in the tropics rather than mess with a fluid coupling clutch a foot behind the radiator. You might not get enough heat at the clutch's bimetal strip to have it work per design. The engine will probably benefit from the open space.

Sixto
87 300D

This might qualify as the first mid-engine W140 :)

Sixto
87 300D

:D

I did consider just putting electric fans in there... but I just love anything and everything that runs without electricity. :P You know, just in case something burns out or something. Haha.

I didn't think about the clutch's proximity to the radiator... good point. Deym.

btw, I still can't get the M104 to turn!!! I need that TC!!! :mad:

I don't think you can drop the crank with TC since the rear seal carrier has bolts into the block which you can only remove with the flex plate out of the way. This is my first thought - remove the cams and oil pan then remove the main caps. That might loosen the crank enough to turn. If not, remove the rod caps, send penetrating oil down the cylinder walls then hammer on a pipe around the rod bolts to send the pistons to TDC (that's why you removed the cams). That should be enough to turn the crank.

Hey, it just occurred to me that you might be able to use the M104 oil pick-up tube in your 602!

Sixto
87 300D

Good idea on the pickup tube!!!!!!! :D Will try that!

Yeah, i'll probably have the guys remove the head completely so I can clean it up and try to salvage useable parts for those who need them. Might as well.

Right now the arms are being fabricated... it looks so ghetto. :D But really really looks robust. :cool:

Initial steel plates cut to size :eek:
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...0302012001.jpg
Doesn't get any more ghetto than this. :D Love it!!!

Leave room to install and remove the starter.

Sixto
87 300D

:eek: OMG!

Wow man, you made me run down there...
I just HAD to check it when you brought it up... haha
More than enough room. Whew!
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...0302012004.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...0312012001.jpg
As long as it gets the car moving... :P

Lo Cry,this is Nate from facebook.Love what you are doing to your w140. I went with electric fans on my cars.

You're Nate? COOL!!! Didn't realize that. :)

I'm getting there. After the engine and drivetrain I'm gonna tackle the electrics. Making it simpler in terms of components. All the A/C stuff has been cleaned and flushed... gotta check the compressor that came with the engine though...
All in all it's all good!

You'll have room for a six-inch-thick intercooler up front, lol... gonna need the extra power from a 2.5L to motovate a W140.

:zorro:

Make sure you can remove the oil filter cover. If not, look for a 603.960 or 603.971 cover. I suppose there are other models with a separate center post.

Sixto
87 300D

It's actually a 2.9, not sure if it'll make a difference though. :confused:What's heavier? A W140 or a G-Wagen? The 2.9L 602 powered the G-Wagen... so i'm good off-road. :D

Demmit, you're gonna make me go down again to check it out... it's 1am... :o

Cool - the 2.9L should be a little better, as the 2.5L was kinda wimpy, even in the smaller/lighter 124 chassis. Not sure about weights between the Gwagen and W140, but I bet the Gwagen had lower gearing.

Speaking of gearing... what transmission will you use with the diesel? The gasser transmissions are set to upshift over 6000rpm at full throttle, which will be an issue with the diesel limited to ~5krpm.

:boat:

I'm using the tranny that came with the 2.8L M104... :( What should I expect in terms of performance? Any way I can compensate? As far as the drivetrain is concerned I'm pretty much re-using everything.