E320 Wagon AWD a Good Buy

[graycenphil]

I have an '84 300SD which I'm very happy with, but it sees limited use.

It seems E320 wagons from around 1999 or so are pretty common at $3,000 or $4,000, and the sellers say excellent condition with 150K or so miles. A buddy just bought a '99 with 80K and the third row seats, in beautiful condition, for $4,000.

We're in the market for an AWD wagon, and had sort of settled on a Subaru. But now I'm thinking maybe I can get a much better car for a lot less money. Am I missing something? Are there major issues, or firghtfully expensive maintainence in the near future? Is it unrepairable, except by the dealer?

I did do some reading and found problems with wiring harnesses on the older E320s, but not much else. I apologize if I am asking a question that has been answered many times.

Thanks.

[97 SL320]

The wiring issue was cured in 95 or so , the W210 E class you are looking at came around in 96.

Wagons have a rear Self Leveling Suspension. This consists of hydraulic cylinders, accumulators , leveling valve and 2 section power steering pump.

This can get expense to fix once you get much past replacing accumulators. You could use springs from a sedan and some adapters to mount standard shocks in place of the SLS rams. Some advise against this, the only real reason wagons has the SLS was to deal with varying rear loads not typically found in a sedan. If you don't wildly load the wagon, it won't be an issue. ( I'd use the thickest spring spacer to deal with the slightly heavier static wagon weight / possible cargo loading )

The other issue with the W210 is rust, front upper spring mounts rust away, fenders and doors get rusty.

No matter what car you want to buy, have a mechanic look at the car first. Most Mercedes age well having good interiors / paint but can get just as rusty underneath as any other car.

[JimFreeh]

Originally Posted by 97 SL320

The wiring issue was cured in 95 or so , the W210 E class you are looking at came around in 96.

Wagons have a rear Self Leveling Suspension. This consists of hydraulic cylinders, accumulators , leveling valve and 2 section power steering pump.

This can get expense to fix once you get much past replacing accumulators. You could use springs from a sedan and some adapters to mount standard shocks in place of the SLS rams. Some advise against this, the only real reason wagons has the SLS was to deal with varying rear loads not typically found in a sedan. If you don't wildly load the wagon, it won't be an issue. ( I'd use the thickest spring spacer to deal with the slightly heavier static wagon weight / possible cargo loading )

The other issue with the W210 is rust, front upper spring mounts rust away, fenders and doors get rusty.

No matter what car you want to buy, have a mechanic look at the car first. Most Mercedes age well having good interiors / paint but can get just as rusty underneath as any other car.

There's more to it than simply replacing the rear shocks. The hydraulic shocks act as part of the load carrying capacity, you need to uprate the springs as well. If you do not, the rear end will sag and be very springy over bumps, even with new heavy duty shocks. sedan springs are not acceptable replacements, you need to get custom springs to make the wagon sit right and ride decently.

Jim

[Mxfrank]

I owned a '99 E320 wagon from new. It wasn't the worst car I've ever owned, but it was by far the worst Mercedes. Rust? Sure, more rust than an old battleship. The liftgate is prone to rust below the window, as water seems to work in around the lock mechanism. If you lift the rubber seals around the doors, you'll probably find a kernel or two of rust. And if you pulled the fenders on a pretty car, you'd find ugly rust working it's way out from inside. But you can drive a rusty car. (and contrary to what was state above, spring mounts are not a problem with 4matic wagons) What you'll find harder to live with is an endless list of electrical problems: radios that don't work, "bulb out" indicators that never go off, transmission control module failures, etc. There will always be one a/c component that keeps you from enjoying cool air. The engine sensors will fail one by one, the worst of them being the crank position sensor which will prevent starting. The engine never was a problem, except it had a habit of picking up "milkshake" under the oil cap. They said it's normal, the result of condensation. I say, not on any car I want to own. The topic keeps coming up, and I keep answering: friends don't let friends buy W210's. There's a reason they're cheap.

[graycenphil]

Thanks 97SL. We do have lots of rust here, but otherwise it sounds like these cars might be a good buy.

[Mxfrank]

I forgot to mention the wheel bolts. They're prone to snapping off above the neck, so you will only be able to remove by drilling. I had eight of 'em go that way, and there is no bigger PITA that being stuck with a flat and being unable to remove the wheel. I had a differential replaced while still under extended warranty. Both cats and all four O2 sensors. Steering rack failures. And it's not that I had a random lemon. A friend of mine had one that spontaneously combusted in his driveway at three weeks old. I'm going to stop now, but I could go on.

[97 SL320]

I had researched this a bit in the past and somewhere sedan springs / thick spacers were fine if the car was not heavily loaded.

Any specs to the actual rear axle weight on the sedan and wagon? ( Not capacity, actual empty weight )

[graycenphil]

Thanks again for all the input. What happened to Mercedes with these cars? And have they solved the problems, I wonder, or will today's cars have these issues in 15 years too?

[Mxfrank]

These cars are still too young for major sls problems.The sls system carried forward from the amazing 124, its a solid proven design. It's not a familiar system, but if you take the time to understand it, its easy to keep it in good shape. Expensive to replace the rams, but cheap compared to swapping less functional springs, shocks and spacers from a sedan.

[ps2cho]

Just stick with 2000-2002 and you'll avoid early issues. Our CLK320 was pretty problem free.

No rust here though, so can't comment on that.

[85 DSEL]

The way I see it, the problem with these is that Daimler Benz joined up with Chrysler in those years and there were problems on many Mercedes models that otherwise would likely not happened if the union hasn't taken place. I'm not an American car fan. Mercedes was and is now a fine motorcar company. I have a '95 E320 Wagon that we bought in 2009 and there's a reason I wanted that particular car. Last of a great model year. We still have the car and it still runs perfect. I had the accumulator replaced a couple years ago and they work beautifully. I'd like to upgrade to the 2005-2009 era but I think they were still under the Chrysler spell at that time (correct if wrong) but I surely won't spend the for one any newer. But hey, why would I get rid of a perfectly performing car in my '95 wagon?


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[Mxfrank]

[QUOTE=85 DSEL;3580327]The way I see it, the problem with these is that Daimler Benz joined up with Chrysler in those years and there were problems on many Mercedes models that otherwise would likely not happened if the union hasn't taken place.

It's a commonly voiced excuse, but no. W210 was designed long before the merger, and the E320 wagons came off the line in Stuttgart. If there was a car company ruined in that merger, it was Chrysler.

[85 DSEL]

[QUOTE=Mxfrank;3580330]

Originally Posted by 85 DSEL

The way I see it, the problem with these is that Daimler Benz joined up with Chrysler in those years and there were problems on many Mercedes models that otherwise would likely not happened if the union hasn't taken place.

It's a commonly voiced excuse, but no. W210 was designed long before the merger, and the E320 wagons came off the line in Stuttgart. If there was a car company ruined in that merger, it was Chrysler.

I still stand by my 'opinion' that Chrysler 'M.O.' had its affects on the once near-flawless Daimler-Benz company of German origin. Accountants and other pin-heads from 'Murica' went in to make changes to the Benz brand when IMHO should have been the reverse.

Again, this is certainly my opinion and little one can say that will move it the slightest

[97 SL320]

The way I see it, the problem with these is that Daimler Benz joined up with Chrysler in those years and there were problems on many Mercedes models that otherwise would likely not happened if the union hasn't taken place.

Accountants and other pin-heads from 'Murica' went in to make changes to the Benz brand when IMHO should have been the reverse.

Actually from what I understand, Chrysler was bought by MB not merged. Chrysler got the 722.6 auto trans, rear differential , Sprinter vans , Cross Fire, Diesel engine for Jeep and probably a few other things.

I have not read of any Chrysler mechanical parts ending up in a MB.

Unless you are buying a new car from the manufacturer or are the target demographic, you have near zero impact on what they do with future models.

Every car maker had made a good and bad car, what qualifies as "bad" is subject to interpretation.

When Hyundai started to bring cars into the US circa 1985 they were bought by people that would normally buy used cars. Some stretched budgets too thin and left no room for regular maintenance or were poor planners not wanting to maintain the car. This lead to the reputation that early Hyundais were not a good car. In reality there were Mitsubishis built under license and a decent low cost car.

Another point is that quality / features of lesser brands is rising making the spread between a MB and everything else not as wide as it used to be. As the gap lessens, it becomes more and more difficult for MB to justify the added cost so something has to change to reduce costs. And besides, I'd think that most MB new car buyers only own ( RE lease ) the car for sub 4 years or maybe lease a CPO for 4 years. These first two groups likely care little about long term reliability as they don't plan on owning the car that long.

[engatwork]

Diesel engine for Jeep

Are you sure? The Jeep diesel I got an opportunity to drive had, I think, an Italian diesel engine in it.