W124 wiring harness issues (Long)...

[allenjdmb]

Just left my franchised MB dealer after getting knocked up again on a 124 wiring harness. They told me on the last car I did it on that on over 100k cars, they could get goodwill parts but no labor. Cars out of warranty, but under 100k, get goodwill parts and labor. Took my 95 E320 in with 91k. Guess what? That's right, they charged me the labor again--7.7hours worth! All the reputable Benz wrenches with 100 miles of here claim that they can do the job on a 6 cyl in about 45 to 75 minutes. Good wrenches should make excellent money--but beating the book by 5 hours?! Here's why this MB scam works--you are forced, if you want any help, to take the propreitary wiring harness from the MB parts department by having it installed at the dealer. Then, whilst they tell you of how big a favor they are doing you, they are billing you labor at a rate equal to FIVE HUNDRED PERCENT of what a reputable wrench would charge. I'm so frustarted I could spit blood. This is so typical of the "new" MB...pass the buck. I called for the first time in my 25 years as an MB customer, the customer support 800 number and vented. I explained to them that I am a second generation MB customer, had bought 3 new Benzes in the past 18 months, and had a new Benz at the port. I further passed on to them that this flet like the last straw, what with the lousy quality on the new cars and the "don't care attitude" from New Jersey. I predict no response. Guys, be aware of this situation before you get beat up on it. If you haven't had a harness yet, you will need one. Just be prepared. Thanks, I'm done now.

[-fad]

...wow! stuck between the proverbial 'rock and a hard place' with very little -if any- clear legal remedy to seek....maybe a class action?-, but I'm not aware if any in this flavor stirring (lots of work)

seem to recall there are some parts of the country that are still honoring 'good will' on both wiring harness and labor (if mileage is under 120k, Benzmac?)....and it may be worth a weekend trip or day trip to savor the oh so sweet remaining goodwill

also, I'm wondering what the wiring harness costs at mercedesshop (maybe a volume buy from MB would lower the part cost, then we can all buy it inexpensively and take it to be installed wherever we want...

-fad

[jsmith]

does MB monitor this forum at all? just curious as some car makers monitor the more popular forums.

i checked alldata and my car model had a safety recall for shorting of the wiring harness. when i called MB they said that based on my VIN there was no outstanding recall service to be performed and it had not been recalled for the wiring harness. i wonder how they selected the cars for that particular recall?

[mbdoc]

2.5 to 3 hours would be a fair time & that is what the techs at our shop get paid. The problem with this is; every dealer can charge whatever they want to as MB has *NO* specified time to install these wiring harnesses. ON almost all jobs MB does have a set time & dealerships are supposed to follow that.

[jsmith]

1st question - has MB ever provided any recourse when calling the 800 number?

2nd question - if some shops are performing a "courtesy" harness replacement, who eats that cost? not exactly a cheap part plus the couple of hours labor.

3rd question - has anyone ever gotten their harness replaced under the so-called safety recall (i see it for my car at alldata)? something smells here, was that some kind of CYA action to put that record of a recall out there? how did they pick which ones were bad and how did they know my car didn't need it?

[Bzoo]

Gentlemen;

I have had the harness replaced on my 92 400E @ 80000. The dealership also replaced the harness it plugged into when they had trouble seperating the two. They did the entire repair free of any charge at all. That was 5 months ago. The dealership has been very good to me even though nothing goes wrong with the car that I haven't been able to repair myself. (Now that's going to open a can of worms.) Anyway, the same dealership has been mentioned on this forum in scathing ways. I'm guessing the people who are handling the customers are either the saints or the sinners in relationships with the dealers depending on who is speaking with whom. My father has been at the same Chevrolet dealership for 31 years this year and I have ocassionally had trouble from new people there who didn't recognize my face. Take this for what it's worth.

[Ashman]

All I have to say is that i would try to get a hold of the local rep for mercedes-benz in your area.

Then I would arrange to have him/her meet me at the dealership to discuss the matter with the owner or service manager.

I would also notify the dealer that I have taken up the issue with MBUSA.

Personally I can understand if it was not a common problem, but it seems to me from what I have read and learned, that the wiring harness is not about if it will fail, but when, because apparently most if not all will or have failed before.

What I would like to know is what kinds of conditions these things fail under, or is it totally at random? Like if Weather affects it, driving conditions, climate, etc etc.

Alon

[G-Benz]

OK here's my two cents worth:

On fading quality...subjective. Yeah, I can recall the chrome and metal of the older Benzes that is now replaced with plastic and vinyl. I agree with blackmercedes...we as consumers are demanding more power, reliability, and luxury out of our vehicles, while the government puts out stricter air quality and safety mandates, and all of this has to be presented in a solid, yet aesthetically pleasing product, in a price that competes with the Toyota Camry. Since financially, this is not possible, there are razzle-dazzle financing plans that allow the regular guy to actually consider getting into an MB.

I too have seen good and bad dealerships...lately though, the salesmen used to ignore me, knowing that I already had an ample supply of their product at home and was just waiting to pick up one of them from the service department. With the economy the way it is today, they have changed their tune. I was waiting for my ML (which they were washing prior to delivering) and no fewer than FOUR salesmen came up to me. They are starving out there, so we should all witness less of the smug attitudes that were more prevalent of the dot-com era.

I can't speak for others who have had bad experiences with brand new MBs, but I know that NONE of mine that I bought brand new EVER reared its ugly head. Sure there were some warranty fixes, but other than routine maintenance, all was well.

With the used ones, I will always attribute problems there with the lack of proper care from the former owner. After all, no one sells their car because it performed TOO well! A typical well-heeled owner probably disposes of their cars the way one throws out an old pair of shoes. I always wonder who supplies the used car department with low-mileage models that are barely a year old! Answer: the earlier example who thrashes their car and then trades it in for another disposable model. It's all about how the car is cared for.

I GAVE AWAY my 1986 Conquest Turbo to my nephew after he left for Missouri. I bought it in Colorado for $3K, fixed the clutch and struts (known problems by the owner), put new tires and muffler on it and had it painted, re-decaled, valve cover and wheels polished, and brake calipers painted. The car performed flawlessly for two years under my care, and I replaced parts when I detected potential problems, which most were small...a vacuum hose here, a radiator hose there, a leaky valve cover gasket, etc.

During its six month tenure with my nephew, he did absolutely nothing to the car except drive it. Now in Missouri, total failed parts include four completely worn tires, a battery, two shot fuel injectors, a destroyed front air dam, and just found out that he has blown the head gasket (despite my repeated warnings of "don't ever let it overheat"). By the way, none of the above had actually been replaced, so now it sits in a repair shop in KC. A perfectly good driver, ruined by the antics of a negligent owner, who should have known better given the lack of income he currently generates.

OK so now I'm venting...

I guess if he had shown up the day I saw that car for sale, I would not have bought it...

The attitude of all dealers is to just sell you a new car. I have seen so much ripping off and incompetence that I have gone to doing the work myself. Parts that we not installed but paid on the bill and such. Some fix something and ignore the cause. I have found some good local independents and use them when I have to but have gone to doing my own work rather than being ripped off by the parts changers and thieves. I heard 3rd hand that the Big 3 train their techs that their job is to sell new cars. They are designed to be most difficult to repair without changing major part assemblies. The cost and lack of serviceability is designed to cause you to trade up. They want to control the customer from cradle to grave, destroying your choices and the independent service technicians as well. They may be doing it.

Regarding getting some help form MBUSA, I had a problem getting a response. I am a member of the Mercedes club (http://www.mbnz.org/) and I posted a nasty remark on the general discussion forum. I said I had called 1-800-for-Mercedes numerous times and no one ever returned my call. Funny thing, I got a call in less than 40 minutes. I thought it was odd because at that time it was after hours in NJ on a Friday evening. I asked, and the gentleman told me he knew nothing of my post, but the coincidence was too unusual. Someone monitors that site. I sent to the Webmaster and he retracted my post after I got the call back. I had felt kind of bad about it. If you try this route, make the subject line strong. Good luck.

Steve
'85 500SL Euro
No one wants to work on this one.

[jsmith]

It appears I am joining the club on wiring harness woes too. I just had my head gasket done at my local indy(migraine #1) and was hoping to get away with not having to deal with the wiring harness issue. Of course, when the engine is all sealed up, the engine misfires and runs very rough. They discover shorting in the harness (of course) and are now trying to put some liquid insulation on the shorting pieces.

I called up MB and they say that there is no official policy and any goodwill service is left up to the dealership which will take into account the current state of the car, mileage, etc. (knew that)

I called up the local dealership who of course denied any knowledge of problems with the wiring harness. They did ask me to fax over all the info I had. I don't know what they will do about it but I did find the following safety recalls for my car which I sent to their attention:

95-0223 Safety Recall - Wiring Harness Chafing/Shorting
95V031000 Wire Harness Protecter Installation

I will keep you posted!

[-fad]

Hi jssmith-

in the event you find there is no legal obligation to the factory to replace the wire harness (gratis), perhaps the most prudent course of action would be to attempt to negotiate with factory authorized service to have some of the cost shared by them

factory authorized service would likely be most lenient extending this consideration/goodwill to clients that patronize their services on a regular basis (for obvious business reasons/ you take care of me, I'll take care of you)

absent and/or over and above that scenario, in any form- an amiable win-win situation appears to be the most desirable strategy to implement

[after all, no business can afford to give away product/ labor gratis and stay afloat these days- and current MB reality is that warranty costs to the company have skyrocketed and consequently are being aggressively managed]

further, it wouldn't hurt to be extraordinarily likable and as flexible as possible during this whole process

good luck and let us know what turns out
-fad

PS- you may wish to additionally research the manufacturers legal safety recall obligation(s)/ time period(s) covered (expiration dates), etc. that accompany 95-0223

[jsmith]

fad,

thanks, and point well taken. i understand very well that i should not burn any bridges anywhere. MB tells me that they are aware of that recall but according to their VIN check, my car has no outstanding recalls, even if the service was not performed. they
do not tell you outright that the recall does not apply to my car, just that they have found no outstanding recalls, which kinda looks like a legalese loophole. i think i am just within the limits of the legal obligation though. for '93 their obligation would end this year.


according to the nhtsa:

"Are There Any Limitations on My Right to Have My Vehicle Remedied at No Charge?"

" Yes. A limitation pertains to the age of the vehicle. In order to be eligible for remedy at no cost, the vehicle cannot be more than 8 years old on the date the defect or non-compliance is determined. Under the law, the age of the vehicle is calculated from the date of sale to the first purchaser. For example, if a defect is found in 1999 and a recall ordered, manufacturers are required to make the correction available at no charge only to cars purchased new in 1991 through 1999. However, consumers should realize that even though manufacturers are not obligated to remedy safety defects in older cars, a safety problem may still exist. If you receive notification of a defect on a vehicle older than eight years, take the responsibility to have your car repaired at your own expense. Eliminate any unnecessary risks...."

[jsmith]

well, at the dealership i tried and i tried and the answer came back NO. they said that maybe if i had purchased the car at the dealership and had maintainance performed by the dealership they might have done it. as 2nd owner i am basically SOL! oh well, it hurts to get hit by this double whammy with the head gasket and then the wiring harness. but then i knew about it, just didn't expect to get hit with it right away. for anyone finding this thread, it is really just a matter of when and not if these breakdowns happen...

[allenjdmb]

since I'm the guy who started this thread. The most hiliarious thing about this is that these last two posts indicate that the goodwill situation is up to the dealer. Would you like to guess what my dealer told me? Yep--"this is totally out of our hands, it's all up to New jersey, blah, blah, blah." This is so typical of the Mercedes brand of the new millenium. It just makes me sad that this once proud company is just...just....whatever.

BTW, I have still received NO RESPONSE from the customer inquiry which which I intiated three weeks ago.

HEY NEW JERSEY--ARE YOU LISTENING? I told your phone drone then--and I believe it's more true now--you just DON'T CARE.

I'll say it again--here's your new corporate mantra:

Daimler Benz--we used to make the finest automobiles. Now all we make is money.

[RunningTooHot]

Can someone please tell me exactly what the failure mode(s) of these harnesses are? What's specifically goes wrong with them -- does the insulation on the wires get brittle with age and crack, or does the insulation get worn away from particular areas due to mechanical interference or vibration? Or do the end connectors fail either physically or by corrosion? Or what else???.

Also, what are the components that the failure prone harnesses connect to? Is there only one harness which connects to ALL the electrical devices on the engine? Or is there a separate harness that controls the electronic fuel injectors, a different one for sensors and/or alternator connections etc.?

The reason I am asking is that I am just now starting a hunt for a clean 94 or 95 E class, and I would like to know what to look for both physically as well as symptomatically.

Sorry for the seemingly inane questions, but like I said I really am flying blind and am in need of some basic information. Thanks in advance for your help!

RTH