Buyer beware story - pls read as I need advice
 

Hi all,

( I know it's a long post but please help with your opinion/advise)

I am a little embarassed to ask for your opinion on this buying story coz, a lot of you might say I should have known better.

I have been on the outlook for a really good 560sel for quite a while. I came across a low miles (62000) black on grey -89 original owner in LA. My father in law was very close so I had him look the car over initially. He babies his cars too so I knew he would be hard to impress regarding interior/exterior. I knew when it came to mechanics I would have to do a buyers inspection. My father in laws gave interior/exterior A+, which he was right on.
The car was a original owner with all service stamps in book.
The owner stated no problems and a strong and smooth running engine.
I had the car goneover by a reputable mercedes only repair shop in LA. He came up clean with a couple of things needed.

Oil pan gasket+ pan
Oil level sensor
P/s hoses
Valve seal.
All belts.
Front brake pads.
Fuel actuator - fuel leaks
- a quoted total of $750.
After talking to the mechanic he attested to have test driven the car himself.

I was really happy to hear this and my father in law told me that when picking up the car there were about 20 other people picking up MB's. Very professional store it seemed.
I told my father in law to have the repairs done as he were to drive it to Seattle.

Well this past weekend has been eyeopening and scary.
The first day I noticed that a belt would screech even though all belt had just been changed?
When the car was cold it would start right up but when hot I had to pump the accelerator for it to catch on.
On these hot starts and some other starts the cabin smells of gas the first couple of minutes. The air condition has not been upgraded, which I didn't mind as the seller stated that ot blew cold air. A LA car must have this working I thought.
I noticed during sunday driving that the rear bounced quite a bit.
It turns out that the spheres needs replacement as they don;t work at all.
And finally monday morning on my way to work, the oil lamp came on steady. I took it to my very much trusted mechanic here in Seattle, he took a quick look into the engine through the oil cap and he said that the build up on was much more than he had seen on other 100k miles cars. I turned out that the engine had burned 2-3 quarts of oil in 1500 miles of freeway driving. Auchhh.

This perfect low miles example that I had inspected by a professional big MB repair shop is now so far facing the following list of issues:

Belts screech
Burns oil excessively
Oh BTW the emergency brake dosen't hold the car at all.
Rear suspension
Leak fuel, smell in cabin and hard to warm start.
Air conditioning.

I have approached the mechanic in LA and he basically claims that he didn't find anything. He looked at the spark plugs and did a compression test.
My mechanic took 30 seconds to look into the engine and found more right away. In his experience the build up is a bigger warning sign that sparkplugs as they can have been replace.

Regarding the suspension the LA mechanic claims he drove the car with no detection.
My mechanic bounced the car manually after driving it for 1 min.
He noticed the fuel smell after coming back from the test drive as he started it again.
The belt screeching was obvious from the get go.

I approached the seller as he had stated the pristine no problem car, but of cause he now refers to the mechanical inspection and that what he said was the best to his knowledge. When I told him about the emergency brake he said that he never uses it.
He knows nothing of the bouncing suspension or the excessive oil usage.

I have approached the mechanic and he told me to get a carfax to verify the milage as he claims that with 62000 miles no such problems should be present.

I need suggestions on how to get either the seller or the mechanic to pitch in on repairs.
I really believe they share responsibility morally in this case.
I paid top dollar for the car and the 750 repair bill which I feel I got nothing for.

Thanks for your time reading this long posting.
If nothing else let this experience help other people avoid my experience.

PS. The picture is taken through the oil cap.

Jari Kristensen :(

sounds like you were after an as-new 'perfect' condition '89 and should have commissioned as comprehensive a PPI as possible- this type of PPI would have noted every little non-showroom/ non OEM aspect of the car

if you have a detailed written legally binding contract representing the condition of the car (specifics) contrary to its true condition, you most likely have no recourse back to the the seller/ PPI company

if this is the case, I'd just spend the money and get the car into the condition you desire...all '89 vintage cars will need work here and there in an ongoing basis- even ones with low low mileage

some of the issues you observe now- - truely may have occured after delivery/sale (vs being pre-existing conditions)

good luck and let us know how this turns out
-fad

I don't know about consumer protection in CA, so I can't offer much help there. But it does sound like you have a basically good car that is suffering from some deferred maintenance and low mileage problems, none of which are huge if you intend to keep the car for a while:

Belts screech - probably the alternator. Simple adjustment.

Burns oil excessively - probably valve seals if the compression test was good. Typical on low mileage cars. Check around with good independent shops for replacement. Do frequent oil and filter changes to clean up the varnish build-up.

Oh BTW the emergency brake dosen't hold the car at all - have an adjustment done. Not a big deal.

Rear suspension - have new shocks installed.

Leak fuel, smell in cabin and hard to warm start - take this one back to the mechanic - he clearly did not get the actuator repacement right.

Air conditioning - beat the seller up on this one. Otherwise, admit that you should have caught it when you drove the car, suck it up and get it fixed.

I'm not usually a believer in snake oils, but many people I trust swear by this product:

www.auto-rx.com

Call Frank Miller at 904-273-9098 and tell him about your possible seal leak and varnish build-up. He'll suggest how to remedy it using this product.

I think $750 for repairs on a car you just purchased pretty reasonable. Every used car I bought required some repair/maintenance right after I bought it. A lot of times the PO may pass on repairs/maintenance since they are planning on selling the car.

I consider it pretty normal.

Thanks!

First of all congrats on the car!

As everyone has already mentioned, many items are typical wear and tear that were neglected by PO.

The only item that is of major concern is the oil consumption. You mentioned the mechanic did a compression test. If he did then he should have provided you with the pressure readings for each cylinder. Post those numbers and maybe a tech can check them to insure it's correct.

The parking brake is a simple adjustment, the spheres are not too expensive and can be a DIY if you're handy. The belt could be a tensioner or any accessory, you'll have to isolate that but it's not a big concern either.

Forget the PO and the mechanic, doubt you have recourse with either of them. For LA area members can you post the mechanics name for future reference/avoidance.

Jari,

Congratultions. You are the proud owner of a low mileage car. Over the past 30 years as a professional mechanic my warnings about buying low mileage cars has fallen on deaf ears. Take the little book out of the glove box and read the section on maintenance for cars operated under severe conditions. You'll find short distance driving listed. The engine and trans are really punished in start and stop situations. You'll put more wear on an engine in the first few miles of driving than the next 50 miles on the highway. The belt and fuel smell, etc are incidental and to be expected. The oil consumption wasn't noticed by the PO, because he didn't haul ass on the Interstate for hours at a stretch. Valve seals may solve that problem, but I'm betting a valve job is in order. Just because the car has only 50,000 miles doesn't mean the engine doesn't have a 100,000 miles from idling. Remember a Budhist Monk can go through 5 gallons of gas and never leave the spot he is sitting on.

Good luck,
Peter

Found out today what the real issue is!
 

Guys,

Thanks for you replies and good luck wishes.
I think I will need it on this one.

My mechanic opened up the valve covers and inspected the guard rails. He certainly believes that the engine has more miles than advertised.

I took the engine number and went to my local MB dealer and to my dismay it turned out that the engine has been replaced.

I asked the seller today and he now has no idea what and why the engine doesn't match numbers. Who knows how many miles this engine has one it?
Suddenly the perfect interior means nothing to me as the car is not original.

The mechanic in LA has taken this very seriously so far and I believe he will aid me in getting money out of the seller.
So far it is only words but he sound serious!

We will see.

I really feel taken on this one.

Later,

Jari

You said the car was purchased from the original owner?

Well, maybe someone here might know.. but couldn't a dealer run the engine number through the system to see what car it came off of? Then, see if you can do a carfax of your car AND the car that the engine came out of.

I think that you may have some legal recourse at that point... or at least you'll scare the original owner into settling.

that cam looks like an engine with many miles,or else it's been overheated severly or run too long between oil changes.......
William Rogers.......

your insights are very much appriciated
 

Even with these cams looking like this could the rest of the engine be fine. Meaning if I do a complete valve job could the engine be expected to run 100k?

Jari

You never stated if you ever pulled a carfax on your vehicle.

Oh I did pull a carfax
 

I did pull a carfax and it showed no roll back issues or anything
suspicious.
All entries were from CA.
Only suspicious thing was that the first entry was in -93 with no milage given and the first milage entry was in -97 at 23,752 miles.

I should have inquired more into that and perhaps even have let it go.


Jari

Assuming that the MB dealer is correct about the engine numbers - in other words - you do have a different engine than the one the car came from Germany with, the so called "original" owner is a liar.

How could he/she not know that the car received a new motor along the way?

A lawyer isn't going to help you here because the monetary damages are small in their eyes. You'll spend forever in small claims court battling this issue.

The bottom line is this. You bought a 14 yr. old car with a tampered odometer reading. Someone rolled back the clock and no one really knows the history except the "original" owner who thus far has sold you nothing but BS.

All 14 yr. old cars need work. What you describe does not sound unusual.

Fix the car and move on.

No way. If you purchased from the original owner -AND- you can prove that the odometer was tampered with, he is in HUGE TROUBLE! Don't just throw in the towel. Yes, move along and get the vehicle in running order... but you have nothing to gain by letting this guy off the hook. Look at the back of the title.... he signed it and verified that the odometer reading was correct.

Carfax claims that they have some sort of $5000 guarantee regarding their info. Look into that as well.

Also, go to the dealership and ask them for a history printout of the vehicle. I think it's called a VMI. Any service guy should give you that. It will include all info about your car including the engine number.. which by the way is a different number than the VIN... in case your mechanic did not know that. Take the information and compare it YOURSELF to the numbers on your vehicle.

Also, before you go to the dealership, get the number off of your engine and see if they can find out where it came from.

With all due respect folks... you just don't roll over and play dead every time you're screwed. If you don't win, nothing lost except for your time... but the experience will be good for you and to share with others in the future. Also, you don't spend forever in small claims court. That's what it's there for... quick decisive resolution on issues of small $$$ amounts. I think it is $3000 now.

I'd have to agree with Willy on this one. I would be furious if I knew what you knew. Definitely read the details on the carfax and determine if there is anything they can do.

Side Note: Carfax doesn't really provide accurate information, only a piece of the puzzle. When I did a carfax on my current vehicle it was also vague like yours for the first 5 years. I requested the PO supply me with a VMI to determine the mileage history as well as service/warranty history on the car. This combined with previous service records completed the puzzle.

Also you never did mention if the mechanic that did the compression test provided you with numbers. This is imperative to determine if he actually did the test and if the engine needs extensive work or not.

If you had a choice would you return this car to the PO and ask for your money back or would you keep the car and ask for $$$ to cover unexpected repairs due to his dishonesty?

Placo1 hit the nail on the head. Carfax reports are ambiguous.

His chances of winning any sort of restitution are slim to none for 3 reasons.

- Carfax - ambiguous info - do you think this will hold up in court?
- As I stated earlier - lawyers - no legitimate legal talent is going to jump on board over a $2000-$3000 issue.
- Distance - the car came for So. Cal. - it's now in Seattle. Ever tried litigating long distance over $2000-$3000???

Don't get me wrong. The guy got screwed. No question about it and I think he should try to pursue this. But unless the "original" owner caves in, his chances of any restitution are slim to none. The owner can play dumb and any defense lawyer can supplement his "play dumb" approach quite easily.

Last year I bought an 86 Euro 500SE at a very reasonable price as it needed work and had been abused by it's second owner. It had originaly been brought into the country by an Air Force General (March Air Force Base sticker still on windshield).The car is diamond Blue (nice Color) and has power everthing and a very good dark blue leather interior I'm not sure if this is common or not in an "86" Euro.
I rebuilt the front end,new belts and hoses, flushed raditor,new rotors,new pads,bebuilt rear caliper, new tires (Yokohames) did some body and paint work.tune up. Then I decided to do a cover off timimg chain. What I found when ordering the chain was instead of a 117 500 Euro engine the car had a 116 Euro 420 engine! I did the cover off.For a long time I felt dissapointment, anger, and felt cheated.
But after driving the car for a year I love it with a capitol L.It gets good milage,has classic style,handles better than any of the 30 odd cars Iv'e owned,It has been very dependable and I plan to keep it till I'm a hundred and twenty.
You said your car had a good body and interior so in my opinion even if you had to put a crate MB 560 engine and tranny in it you would still be on top when you see the gimmick ridden cars being sold at outrageous prices, you have one of the best automoblies ever built bar none.......
William Rogers.......

Look at the bright side!
 

My "new, to me" 1973 450SE has 2 HUNDRED & 72 Thousand miles on it, not the 72,000 "original & correct" the seller maintained...

But, "He's in the Jailhouse, now!" :D

Cheers!

p.s. You have a situation where you need to do some further investigation, but...

You have one of the finest vehicles ever produced to begin with.

The Auto-RX advice was very good: the absolute 1st thing I did with the 450SE was an oil and filter change, 8 quarts of Pennzoil LongLife 15W-40 and 16 oz. of Auto-RX in the engine, drained a quart of ATF and put 6 oz. in the tranny.

After about 1000 miles a complete tranny service (drain the torque convertor, new filter, etc.) & another oil change and filter. Then, after 2,250 miles on the oil, add the 2nd Auto-RX 16 oz. treatment, drive for 750 miles, oil & filter change and I'm done.

I'm goin' for the 1/3 million mile mark, boys & girls!:cool:

buyer beware
 

shame,,, all this has happened ... i feel for you brother...
i have been trying to sell my 92 turbo diesel 124 body since last nov... she has 203k and is just breaking in! has been mantianed 100% and looks and runs like new.. but everyone is SCARED of a car with high miles... I myself would not lie to anyone about my cars history but seems like the P.O. has.. pity..

p.t.barnum had a rude saying,,, a sucker born everyday///

caveot emptor sounds nicer than p.t. barnums line

bottom line

buyer beware



:(

if you can prove thru the vmi stuff that the buyer misrepresented the vehicle you may have some recourse.. but if you bought it as is,, where is,,, condition get out the vasaline!:p

I hate to say it but I don't see anything wrong in that picture.

The wear area of the cam looks good and the small in focus area around the one visable spring has no build up other than amber color, which I would expect.

If you wish to double check the engine number send me the chassis number and I'll find you the original engine number.

Your first statement said the car was checked and "valve seal" found to be a problem. If the 750 included this repair I presume it was botched if you still use oil.

Update
 

Thanks all for mature and comforting words,

I have as stated before found out what the deal is.
The engine was replaced at one point. The carfax shows no rollback, but is very sparse on history for the first 10 years.

I call up the PO and confronted him with the news. Remember he had always claimed to be the original owner.
When I confronted him with the fact of the engine swap, he became on the phone very vague and I could hear him say "oh no , oh god". It was evident he had something to hide.

I asked him point blank when he got the car and who sold it to him. He was now very short and said oh a year ago from some guy.

However the carfax shows that he bought it 02/05/03.
(yes, I did not pull a carfax before buying the car. I was taken by his description and the fact that my father in law meet with him, looked at the maintenance books, and he appeared as a trustworthy person. Car had religious vanity plates (so what!!!)and the mechanic, who I paid good money and repair bill ( 850 in total ) claimed to have driven the car and said good for it.))

But who buys a car 4 months ago. Tells lies to the mechanic and buyer (father in law) and tries to sell the car long distance and then claims ignorance.

He knew and the mechanic got mislead and did a bare inspection job, I am afraid. And I am stuck with the lemon. This is not right.

I had two days where I honestly thought I was gonna be sick from this. Couldn't sleep, stomach ache etc. I paid top dollar for this car expecting only minor repairs.

How much would you guys have paid for a california 63000 miles original perfect interior/exterior black on grey 560 sel -89?
Be honest.

Now you know how I have felt for the last couple of days.

But thanks to all your responses here:

wjm - thanks for the encouraging words. I will take the fight.

placo1 - I would return the car as this was not what I was willing to pay top dollar for - and BTW the compression came back with:
1:150, 2:150, 3:150, 4:150, 5:160, 6:150, 7:160, 8:160.
Is 160 the number from new??

William Rogers - thanks for sharing your experience - made me (and my wife) feel better. I know it's the best car ever built.

STORMINORMAN - I truely hope I will develop the same feeling as you, thanks.

stevebfl - This sounds encouraging. One Q: can the rest of the engine be just fine although we know nothing of this engines history?? Can somebody help me figure out where the engine came from?

I am listing the Vin and engine nr so that any of you proud and honest people can perhaps help me find info on this issue:

vin: WDBCA39E2KA478524
engine: 1179681201045

All info you can dig up I would be more thankful than you can ever imagine. I love MB's and I feel mostly horrible over the fact that this guy could post as a true MB enthusiast and do this to another MB enthusiast. To me this was more than just a car.

Finally I will ask you on the matter of the mechanic.
My beef here is that I spoke with him on 2 different occasions and at both times did he ensure me that he would be able to tell a good car from a bad one. He even said that he wouldn't hit me up for money if it was a bad car. This mechanic has a major shop in LA. The reason I am not mentioning a name is that I have spoken with him about the issue here and over the last week he has ensured me that " don't worry, Jari. I WILL help make this right, we will get the money from this guy. I just need to get the car back here to LA in order to start pursuing this matter. I spoke to my lawyers today". No I have no specifics yet as I don't think he knows yet what can be done. But I am hoping he will come through as I think he was taken too.

The reason I am turning to him to press the case is that I get the car up here and my mechanic as the car has low milage, he immidiately popped off the oil cap and seeing the buildup he went for matching the engine with the car. Also he drove the car for about a min before saying that the rear felt bouncy. He got out and jumped on the fender and the car bounched and bounched and some more....

This leads me to believe that the mechanic did a very sketchy job of testing the car. If he knew his stuff and knew these cars behavior he would have done better than he did. Now he will not admit to this ( I have not confronted him ), but if I am left with no recourse I will have to mention his name here as he could easily have saved me the experience. Instead he wrote me up for $750 worth of misc repairs that I totally trusted.

I WILL take both parties to small claims court if that is my last resort.

But I do believe the mechanic and I have some recourse as it seems that the original owner sold it only 5 months ago. And he must have something to tell about the seller.
Also I would like to know why the PO is so secretive about when and who he bought it from. I just have to prove that he knew of the engine issue and he is legally obligated to hand back the money.
- Or if he was so truthful we would both go after the original owner.

All, One thing is for certain. I will not go away quetly as this is very wrong. And I will let the people know this.

Thanks for your advise and comforting words.

Jari

I take it, then, that you pulled the carfax after buying the car, right? Otherwise you would have questioned his honesty about being the original owner.

Also, if you want to find the original owner, it's in the VMI. You can also go to your DMV and do a title search. Here in Michigan, it costs like $6 and change for each copy of title that comes up.

I'm sure the original owner might give you more insight.

I would be glad to check to see if the chassis and engine number match (on Monday), but I can tell you right now that the engine number is one diget short.

We need one more number.

stevebfl
 

Steve,

Sorry a typo on my behalf.

engine: 11796812010145

I already know that the number does not match the chassis.

What I would be interested in is where did this engine come from and what happend to the car it orignated from.

This way I might be able to match info from the donor car with the owners and/or mechanics and figure out what the PO and original owner knew.

In hindsight I begin to feel like I should have started my car search here.

Steve, in your role as a mechanic, do you have experience with detecting fraudulent cars like this??

Jari

PS. If nothing works out for me I might just start and maintain a website, that informs and provides legal forms for buyer and seller that can protect both parties and I will mention names of the parties involved in this case....

all i know is this, if it helps. i had a 1987 560sec that probably only was driven 4,000 miles a year. it probably never saw 55mph.

i took over its driving in 2000. when i started driving it my way, its oil consumption was similar to my hard-driven 560sel that did approx 20,000 miles per year. within 4 months of daily running, i found it blowing huge clouds of white smoke upon pedal to the metal acceleration after decel or from rest. lube oil consumption was about a quart per 500 miles.

pulled the heads. saw all the evidence of an engine never used. thick gummy carbon deposts on piston crown and valves. scuffed and scored cam lobes. totally deteriorated valve stem seals.

cylinder walls were good.

cleaned piston crowns. replaced valves, guides, stem seals, cam shafts, timing chain tensioner.

since that overhaul, i have put 30,000 high speed miles on the car. engine is tight. lube oil is changed at 3,500 mile intervals - virtually no oil consumption during this interval.

morale of the story: engines are meant to be used. fix the engine. you'll love the car.

next time, though, rent a bore scope. pull the plugs and examine each cylinder before making the purchasing decision.

happy running.

jari, sorry to hear of your dilema.

if you really like the car, the previous advice to set it straight and look forward to many miles is good.

as our ever popular SPOCK says: live long and drive a MB! :)

if not, a couple of thoughts as to recourse:

#1 carfax is basically a complilation of public DMV records. they do offer a guarantee, but only that the info they pull is correctly reported from the those records.

#2 the 1st mech: it sounds as if he made have performed a less than through inspection, but unless he was an actual party to the purchase agreement, i think he is out of the loop. however, he would be liable for charges if he billed you for work that was not performed.

#3 the PO: when he signed the title, he either checked "actual" milage or not. if he received the car under an "actual" title, and didnt change the motor or speedo, he did not perger offical documents. he may have lied about being orig owner, but was not in that case, the one who "cooked the books". dishonest at least, possibly criminal.

an understanding MB dealer (or possibly one of the techs here who have friends in high places) can pull the "master" file for the cars VIN, and that along with any previous title info may give you the opportunity to reach the origional owner (and any intermediate owners) to determine the cars "real" history.

good luck either way. - benton

Steve, did you find any info on the numbers
 

Hi steve,

I was wondering if you had any luck with digging up history on the donor car for the engine I have?
I sure would like to know how many miles it has on it!

Jari

A friend of mine, (he was actually a used car salesman), once said to me about one of the cars he was selling..."This car's had one careful owner, the other nine didn't give a stuff". I thought that was funny but I certainly don't think what you're going thru is.
I have just bought a 1987 300SEL from a caryard over here in Australia and what you're going thru is what I would consider my greatest nightmare. I too would be feeling sick but you know what, it will sort itself out in your favour. Hey MB4Ever, I truly feel for you and hope it works out for you.

I'll read this thread with much interest and I'm sure I'll read one day in the not too distant future you'll have a win.

Cheers
JC

I did verify that the motor was wrong for that chassis number. It doesn't work the other way. I can say that the engine you have is about 100k motors new than the one that should be in it. That doesn't say anything about mileage.

Update - getting the car fixed
 

Hi all,

The latest turn of events is that I have spoken with the mechanic in LA (He is the owner of a quite large MB only repair shop in LA), and he has continuesly assured me that if I bring the car down to him, he will take care of the mechanical issues on the car and he will not charge me for it, but go after the PO. I believe we can get the PO on document fraud.

I have been confused as to what he exactly will do for me so I wrote up the agreement we came to over the phone and faxed him the letter. I asked him to sign it as it would make me feel more confident in spending time and money bringing the car back and forth.

I call him up today to see if he had seen the fax. He was very firm on the phone saying that he did not want to sign the agreement.
He said this is not how they do business and that he has already given me his word. At his place that's good enough. He went on to saying that he took this letter as an insult as he is volunteringly putting his neck out for me.

I have not approached him with the facts that he could have saved me and him for the entire deal if he had looked inside the engine for buildup. (1st thing my mechanic did)
Also the hand brake does not hold the car at all and the rear suspension is dead, which the mechanic up here noticed after 1 min of driving.
The mechanic in LA did notice on the inspection sheet that the car burned oil but prescribed the change of a valve seal. So in effect I have already paid for fixing oil burning as a part of the first $750.
The car smells of gas fumes after startup and he has already changed the fuel actuator.
The car is still hard to start when warm/hot.
The air condition does not get cold enough according to the mechanic up here.

These are all basic issues and for these issues to bypass him on a buyers inspection where he claims he drove the car, it is clear to me that he did a bad job at best. I believe the LA mechanic feels taken as well by the PO so he is very much interested in setting PO straight.

So far I am the only one out of money and it makes me uncomfortable that I am driving to LA with no real binding agreement in place. Given my experience w/ PO I feel like I am about to be taken for a ride again. I come down there and he turns around and basically tells me it will cost me or that he will only do 1 thing out of the 4-5 issues.

Am I totally out of order here? - and what should I expect from the mechanic given what he has said over the phone?

I really do hope he pulls through for me on all the mechanical issues.

Jari

Is the previous owner acting like he is going to refund your money ? Have you asked him point blank to take the car back and have him refund you the purchase price plus $750 plus gas and time... To get this to happen you have to very casually put the fear of god in him by saying that if he will not refund everything and make this right you now and only now have no choice but to pursue him legally - you do not have to clarify what this means, only that you have spoken with your family lawyer who says he is ready to take care of this if you ask him to... the PO should balk at this point and offer to make things right.. if he doesn't then go after him, you know he lied to you!! Make it your life long mission to resolve this in your favor and don't back down. But first you have to sound very calm, and try to act as if you have resigned yourself to let your family lawyer have it and you are calling him one last time to give him one last chance to make things right... forget the mechanic if you can and get a refund and go forward or fix the car and get over it... I could never ever get over it though ..;) Dont back down if you dont want to!!! You know he lied to you!!

Hi Jari...
I've been reading up on all the responses you have gotten and I will try to give you some fair advice. I own a MB & BMW body shop in the Los Angeles area and quite often I see these issues occur between buyer and seller. Especially with the amount of cars that are salvaged here in SoCal. CarFax does not mean much...All the entries in CarFax are done by smog stations and Insurance companies - CarFax has nothing to do with DMV! 99% of the time the attendants at some of the smog stations are illiterate - no joke! They either add a zero or a 1 in front of the reading...As far as the legal side is concerned, you may be out of luck. The car is older than 10 years - it no longer falls under the Odometer reading act...So if the seller turns the miles to 19K and tells you that the car is AS IS - no WARRANTY - even more, you took it to a shop to have it checked before buying! As far as the seller is concerned - you have nothing on him...Believe me, it's not worth he agony and the time...I think you should fix your car. Forget about the shop in Los Angeles, I don't think anyone is going to cover for the work and then go after the original owner. Especially here in Los Angeles! I am sorry to be so blunt but the way I see things is exactly the way the other shop owner sees it. One more thing, Ca DMV will NOT release the information on prior owners. Good Luck!

Yes, but Washington State might.

Is it to late for the dealer to sell you a extended warranty?

I believe the car is an '89 model. Not sure what the statute of limitations is on age, but I think 14 yrs. pretty much exceeds it.

I think somethimes it depends on the milege...no harm asking.

Go to a lawyer, find out what are the laws about selling car and what protects the buyer. I the mean time keep searching info about the car and keep the ad of the seller saying the info of the car. One last thing who recomend the mechanic in LA, The seller??
Good luck on this, never say die.:cool:

the seller recommended it
 

as the seller had the car serviced there for the last couple of times.
I had my father in law go to the mechanic and he isa rather large and he claims a reputable mechanic.
He has promised to take care of the mechanical issue as I am actual leaving for LA today.
I have not mentioned his name here as I believe he will come through for me.

Staytuned for an update when I return on monday after having meet with the mechanic myself face to face.

I still believe we can get the PO on fraud with regard to ownership.

Thanks for your advise.

One thing: I would surely like to know where this replacement engine came from? How do I figure that out now that the PO is totally reluctant to give any real info.

Jari

Like I said earlier... go to a Mercedes Dealership Service Department. See if they can look it up in their system. Or you can start calling some service departments... tell them you purchased a care and just found out that the engine number does not match and you are concerned that the engine was stolen. Use some creativity.

I still have a lot of questions on the details of what the mech was supposed to have ... can't figure out what was exactly done.

Setting that aside, it is time to fix it, drive it, and prosecute the bad guy if you can be reasonably assured you (a) have a case, and (b) can win the case. Spending more money (and, if you think $750 is a lot ... BTW, this sounded pretty reasonable for the items you broadly discussed, but again, I can't figure out what was actually worked on and the result) on an attorney to take a small time twit down (I also don't think I understand exactly what might have happened here ... newpapers are full of stories of people buying off the corner and finding out cars are from all over with hail, flood damage and repaints, etc) ... you will spend more than it is worth and in the end still be jacked that you got screwed ... except an attorney will have shared in your pain.

Fix it, learn from it, and persistently address whatever you can to ensure you pass on the experience AND the people and businesses that were involved (make sure you actually know what you are talking about and how to legally do this without getting in trouble yourself).

At no point, btw, have you mentioned doing any work yourself ... while this is obviously not something everyone does, driving a complex foreign car that is 16 years old without being able to understand and work on some portions of it may be unadvisable.

Good luck ... this time next year you will be very, very knowledgeable ... keep reading the many posts here ... I continue to be awed by the depth of knowledge and caring attitudes by everyone; posters, pseudo-mechanics, mechanic moderators, etc... and even the best parts guy - Phil!! - in the business ...

Jari,

I would be really weary of a mechanic that was recommended by the PO and personally would steer clear from the get go. Since you've already used the mechanic I would suggest being very cautious with any further proceedings.

I'm a little confused though, you mention that you want to go after the seller for fraud or false advertising, but at the same time you are getting the vehicle repaired at no charge. If the shop doesn't charge you for the repairs (find this hard to believe BTW) and says he will go after the PO then let the shop worry about it and get the car fixed with a receipt stating "no charges will be incurred". Walk away from the mess and enjoy the car.

On a separate note, when I was in Seattle buying my 500E I had the car inspected by Phil Smart Mercedes and my Service Advisor was Derek Oakley. They found absolutely everything (including the really minor items) when they did the PPI. If you're still unsure what condition your car is in I would recommend them do a PPI which will cost approx $245.00 and includes their Starmark Checklist. You can provide this list to the mechanic repairing the car in LA to insure nothing is overlooked.

Soooooooo...........any update!?

I'll throw in my 2 cents here. On the back of a CA title it states under penalty of perjury that the mileage is true and correct.

It might be worth a try to complain to the DMV and/or Consumer Affairs in CA.

If all else fails plaster the guys name everywhere in LA.

BTW...LA is on of the havens for cars having mileage turned back.

Can someone hack the EPC to get the VIN that corresponds to the engine number? It has to be in there, right?

Sixto
95 S420
91 300SE
87 300SDL
83 300SD

Not knowing much about hacking its hard to give an opinion. What I can tell you is that a VIN is the mechanism to begin the identification of parts. In most cases it also links a file called a "data card".

On the data card are all the option codes and pertinant numbers: trans, steering, engine, etc. I am relatively sure there are no engine number lists within the main program. One would need to search the data base of data cards.

I would call Mercedes Customer Service directly. Try Canada first. They seem to be a bit more helpful at times.

If this guy is a car-curber and selling salvaged/used autos misrepresented as private sales, he may be in violation of local business licensing statutes.

I got taken by a curber when buying my first Porsche (young AND stupid, bad combination). The City had several complaints on file and went after him for operating a business without a license. I went after him in civil court and felt lucky just to get my repair costs back! :rolleyes:

Good luck and keep us informed.

There are federal odometer laws and California has its own odometer laws. I believe the federal law only applies to cars 10 years old or younger. Certainly you have recourse under state law but something like this doesn't warrant lawyers, fees, etc. If I were you, I'd address all the issues you believe were undisclosed and bring a small claims case. You can recover up to $5,000, it's quick and easy. This sounds like enough to address your problems. The only problem is you have to come to LA for the hearing which is probably worth it if you collect the money. Contact me if you want to do this and I'll send you the forms you need.

Got back from LA today
 

All,

Just to let everybody know, I got back from LA today.
I flew down yesterday and drove the car back.
The mechanic did come through for me and they rebuilt the entire engine and rear suspension without a single charge to me. BTW, what a difference in handling a proper working suspension makes.
( well of cause you may say, but I had never experienced this before)

I have been awful busy at work and I have to catch up on sleep tonight but I will post a full and detailed update this weekend as I really appriciate all the good thoughts and comforting words this thread has offered me (and my wife).

My intent is to take the PO, Benjamin Kim to small claims court as I really do not think he should get away with it. I had him on the phone 2 weeks ago and he point blank said to me, "What do you think you are to me?". The other part is that I paid $13000 in cash, which I think is fair for a 63000 miles original one owner pristine car, and I have had several added expenses with unpaid time off work, additional repairs, flight expenses and lots of headache. Mr Kim needs to be held accountable.

I would like to ask Matt_Clarke for his advise and help in getting the small claims court filing started. My father in law is ready to render his account in court as well. Matt_Clarke, please feel free to email me directly at: jarik@telesym.com
I realize I will have to set time aside to show in person.

For now I will get a good nights sleep as I have a busy day tomorrow.

Jari