Is merecedes too troublesome ? - Page 54 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Texholdem · #**796** 07-15-2007, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

The only way to not have to pay that while driving a high end car is to buy a new one every 2-3 years and trade before the factory warranty goes up.

Alas, not many of us belong to this privileged circle. Otherwise there would be no forum like this.

Ocean View · #**797** 07-16-2007, 01:50 PM

Just bought a new E350 2 weeks ago.
I must say that it drives nice and that everything works fine so far.
The new brakes feel more responsive than the SBC system.
However I noticed something right away.
The car feels like it's made out of a tin can.
The same cheap metal and plastic feel that many of you complain about on Japanese cars.
It must be the new way to make cars now as compare to the older vehicles.
I compared it to my 96 W210 which feels solid and better engineered to me.
For example, I was really surprised to see that the rubber foam seal that surrounds the trunk lid on the W211 does not cover the entire opening like my W210.
I wonder how much MB is saving by doing this?
I have heard many people say that MB was lowering quality on it's cars to make more profits but the sight of this made me wonder what else are they cutting back on. Are they as safe as the older cars?

I don't think I can justify the high prices of a MB anymore as they really are not that much better than a Toyota in my eyes.
Is the quality of a new MB worth 2-3 times the price of a new Toyota?

Texholdem · #**798** 07-16-2007, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean View

...
I don't think I can justify the high prices of a MB anymore as they really are not that much better than a Toyota in my eyes.
Is the quality of a new MB worth 2-3 times the price of a new Toyota?

No, it is the brand not the real value. MB lives on its reputation of the past. I love my 300CE but would not buy a new MB, not for that inflated price.

Hatterasguy · #**799** 07-16-2007, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean View

Just bought a new E350 2 weeks ago.
I must say that it drives nice and that everything works fine so far.
The new brakes feel more responsive than the SBC system.
However I noticed something right away.
The car feels like it's made out of a tin can.
The same cheap metal and plastic feel that many of you complain about on Japanese cars.
It must be the new way to make cars now as compare to the older vehicles.
I compared it to my 96 W210 which feels solid and better engineered to me.
For example, I was really surprised to see that the rubber foam seal that surrounds the trunk lid on the W211 does not cover the entire opening like my W210.
I wonder how much MB is saving by doing this?
I have heard many people say that MB was lowering quality on it's cars to make more profits but the sight of this made me wonder what else are they cutting back on. Are they as safe as the older cars?

I don't think I can justify the high prices of a MB anymore as they really are not that much better than a Toyota in my eyes.
Is the quality of a new MB worth 2-3 times the price of a new Toyota?

Thats what many W124 owners thought when the W210 came out...

Its funny how that works...

Hatterasguy · #**800** 07-16-2007, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texholdem

Alas, not many of us belong to this privileged circle. Otherwise there would be no forum like this.

Well high end cars cost more to maintain then regular cars, thats been true since the car was invented. Model T vs Duesenberg. Even if its used, thats just the way it is.

Thats why most older MB's are shot, people cannot or will not repair them and just drive them until the problems affect operation.

khickey · #**801** 07-16-2007, 11:51 PM

"High end" means quality to me, and quality to me means less maintenance. I can see where the maintenance would/could be cost more, but I would contend that a quality car should require less of it.

khickey · #**802** 07-16-2007, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texholdem

No, it is the brand not the real value. MB lives on its reputation of the past. I love my 300CE but would not buy a new MB, not for that inflated price.

Like Harley's

bells_77 · #**803** 07-17-2007, 09:39 AM

The exclusivity has to be backed by quality, otherwise MB's fate will be that of Jaguar -- the brand will simply implode...

Lexus already took a huge chunk of MB's business, and although I am not compelled to buy an expensive Toyota, if MB's quality will drop to that of expensive Toyota, I will go for Lexus. After all, they seem to have at least Toyota's reliability, and my 140 is, really, a nightmare story (although really pretty and comfy one)...

#**804** 07-17-2007, 10:21 AM

A point that seems to be lost in this debate:

New Mercedes are expensive as compared to your average Ford, Chevrolet, or Honda - that is indisputable.

New Mercedes are incredibly INEXPENSIVE as compared to old Mercedes. A new E350 is roughly $52K in 2007 dolllars.

My '92 400E was roughly $53K in 1992 dollars. This translates to a tab of roughly $76K in today's dollars. Yikes!

My 1983 300CD was a whopping $35K (roughly) when it left the showroom. This translates to tippng the scales at roughly $72K in today's money.

So relatively speaking, new Mercedes have not continued the pricing that one would expect based on historical trends. It should not come as a surprise that since the cars cost approx $25K less, the "feel" of the car may not be what we would hope. But the trade-off is this - who in their right mind would pay in the mid $70s for a standard-issue E Klasse today?

That said, this does not answer the reliability factor. If I purchase any new vehicle - bank-vault-quality "feel" or not, I expect the car to WORK. Were I the proud owner of a new E Klasse who was relegated to driving a C240 loaner on a regular basis whilst my E returned to the dealer for warranty work, I would indeed be very angry.

ksing44 · #**805** 07-17-2007, 12:06 PM

I am starting to wonder what the posts are like on the 3-Series or 5-Series BMW forums. It seems they have been winning over the experts for years and years. I think as many as 3 generations of the 3-Series have been rated best, at least in terms of driving them. I wonder if they are problematic. My recollection is that they were problematic back in the day, but then improved dramatically, right around the time that Mercedes built the last W124.

I wonder...

Peter Fearing · #**806** 07-17-2007, 01:57 PM

Keep in mind that most of the front end of a new Benz is made of aluminum, a weight saving method. I drive a new ('07) E550 and find the quality higher than any of the last 26 cars I have owned. In my business we tend to want a higher quality auto with little regard to cost. I have a feeling that the folks at MB are doing a rather excellent job with their cars.and they are making quality improvements on each new model.

ksing44 · #**807** 07-17-2007, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Fearing

In my business we tend to want a higher quality auto with little regard to cost.

I need a job in a business like that! I am leaving Big Pharma. They don't care at all about my car!

Hatterasguy · #**808** 07-17-2007, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khickey

"High end" means quality to me, and quality to me means less maintenance. I can see where the maintenance would/could be cost more, but I would contend that a quality car should require less of it.

So because on a Ferrari Enzo brakes cost $10k, and a service is like $20k, its a POS? My moms Rav4 that costs zero to maintain is a better car?

Complicated cars cost more to maintain, more to break.

Ocean View · #**809** 07-17-2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Fearing

Keep in mind that most of the front end of a new Benz is made of aluminum, a weight saving method. I drive a new ('07) E550 and find the quality higher than any of the last 26 cars I have owned. In my business we tend to want a higher quality auto with little regard to cost. I have a feeling that the folks at MB are doing a rather excellent job with their cars.and they are making quality improvements on each new model.

I thought the plastic grill felt cheap and unsupported.
Have you opened the hood up and closed it?
You can see that MB is improving in many areas of the car, the brakes for example.
I just wanted to make a comment that overall the car felt cheap and tin can like and felt that MB was cutting corners in some areas.

itb76 · #**810** 07-18-2007, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksing44

I am starting to wonder what the posts are like on the 3-Series or 5-Series BMW forums. It seems they have been winning over the experts for years and years. I think as many as 3 generations of the 3-Series have been rated best, at least in terms of driving them. I wonder if they are problematic. My recollection is that they were problematic back in the day, but then improved dramatically, right around the time that Mercedes built the last W124.

I wonder...

Off and on I have been reading the 3-series forums, as I plan to get one in about two years/40,000 miles (the dub has to go to 200K). They have their problem areas but seem to be generally reliable. Some have said they're a genuine 300K car. I expect 300K from my Benz, even though it's an M-class. However the BMWs are more sporting, and available with a stick shift!