Yes, Shell Rotella 15W-40 WAS the factory fill in the 80's. Now though Porsches come with Mobil 1. I am sure it all has to do with lucrative sponsorship contracts. Mobil 1 was around in the 80's, why wasn't that used back then? The engine in my Porsche has Shell stickers all over it, from the factory, whereas Mercedes and Porsche now have Mobil 1 stickers on them.

Well, I think I still have some Shell Rotella T 15W-40 from when I had my Suburban, as that it what I used in it, because that is what the PO had used in it since it was new and it had 288K on it and it still did not burn any oil.

Obviously, it is good oil. Do you think this would be my best choice for my 3.8 V8 with 263K? Should I e-mail the PO and ask what he has used and stick with that brand/weight? If he has used a certain weight/brand of oil for the past 5 years, would it harm it to switch over to another brand/weight?

Not really.

http://www.mbnz.org/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1239788&posts=8&fid=12

Just stick with the Shell or Chevron Delo 400 for 15W-40 oil. Or you could use Mobil Delvac 1300 15W-40. These come in 1 gallon jugs, which makes it easier (quicker) to do an oil change. Just dump in 2 jugs and your done.
The garage I bought my Porsche from said, 15W-40 is what they service all their customer's cars with, except for the Porsches, then they use Kendal 20W-50. This garage services all European makes. Rotella, Delo, and Delvac 1300 all can be bought at any Walmart or "McParts" auto parts store.

It is the (engine) lubrication system, stupid.
 

First: It never seem to amaze me that people buy a Benz and then cut corners when it comes to maintaining it.
Second; mention or say oil and we all have opinions and half-truths.

This thread started with the questionable quality of fram filter especially in an MB, and progessive took on a live of its own. As a new owner, here is what I will do and I hope I will have answered you questions:

Oil change: changing oil without changing filter is like taking a shower and putting on dirty underwear. the oil and filter changes must be done. Not all filters are created equal. For lack of enough data, I will stay away from fram especially the cartiage type filter. Preferable always use the OE filter. Next in line use Mann or Hengst. If you cannot afford $10-$15 filter, why drive a Benz? I do not believe in cutting corner when it comes to oil change since it is the most important thing you can do for your engine. BTW, there may be two types of filters, the extended interval and the regular interval filter. Always save money by doing 3-4 filter order (year supply) at a time from Fastlane.

Oil type: MB recommends synthetic oil for all later models. There are no reasons why you cannot use same for the earlier models. People that object to use of synthetic for early model just don't have the scientific facts. When it comes to oil there are more opinions that facts. I like to see scientific data from a reputable body why synthetic cannot replace dino oil. The major reason not to use synthetic is based on 2X higher cost. However, with the extended drain interval it becomes a mute point.

Oil grade: Again MB recommends Mobil 1 0W40. Look at the spec. That may be the only oil you need irrespective of where you live be it be it the desert or artic circle. Save yourself the worry....use this same oil all year round. Personal experience for those of you who know Minneapolis MN, I parked at the airport during Xmas holiday for 2 weeks and upon my return the car started at first crank. You may say I have good battery but I say it is the oil.

Oil change interval: I change my oil 10k miles or 6 months, which ever comes first. Typically, it more like 7.5K miles. I do 95% interstate driving at 75mph.
Synethitic oil change at less than 5K miles is waste of money.

In summary:
Use MB/Mann/hengst filter .....$10-$15
Use Mobil 1 0W40 ...............$3-4/quart (always on sale somewhere)
Change it.............................Warm at 7.5k miles or 6 months
Method................................drain it

i dont know
 

what benz you have but personally, i wont use oil lighter than that recommended by the mggr.

in my 616 and 617s i have always used rotella 15w40. sometimes in summer, straight 30w. i change oil and filter at 3000 pretty religiously.

my 350sdl i am using 10w40 mobil one and running 5k.

tom w

I think the quality of the Frams is not what it use to be. I always like to stay with a high quality German brand of filter.

PA2TU,

MANN and Hengst are OEM. Go buy any filter from a dealer and it will be one of those, just in a MB box, costing $4-$6 more. Oil filters for the 3.8 liter cost $6.39 from Fastlane. Oil filters for the 603 and 617 diesel engines cost in the neighborhood of $8.

As for MB now recommending syn. oil and that it should be good for the older engines, I don't know. As I mentioned before, synthetic oil has been around for over 20 years, so why only now recommend it, if it is/always was superior to dino. Porsche recommends the same thing, even for older models. I can understand syn for more modern engines due to tighter tolerances, but we are talking about 20 + yrs old engines.
I know someone who owns a 1985 Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe. He has owned it since new and religously changed the oil every 3K, using Castrol GTX 10W-40. He has 195,000 miles on it and it doesn't burn oil, and the motor has never been opened up.
My father owns a 1985 300D Turbo diesel, has the oil (dino) changed regularly and has 365,000 miles on it. 200,000 of that he has put on.

Well said PA2TU. If you don't want to pay drive a Honda. MB's are not cheap to own and they never pretended to be.

btw I bought a PS filter from the dealer, in the official MB box and all. I open it up and it says Mann on it.:D So OE, Mann, Heignst, Bosch are all about the same.

The dirtiest and oldest oil I have ever seen!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Well, I changed the oil in my car today and ANY oil filter would have been better than what was in it. This had to be the DIRTIEST, BLACKEST, oil that I have EVER seen in my life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:disappoin I recently bought the car and I knew it needed a change, but this was ridiculous! The oil filter was so OLD that it literally had a big hole in it! No, it was not one of the smaller ones that was supposed to be there either. The PO had put 40,000 miles on the car. It would not suprise me if that oil had at least 20K on it. :worried2:

I ended up putting in Rotella 15W-40 in it, as several had suggested. I also put in a Purolator oil filter on it...... :thinking:

Like I said, anything would have been better than what was in there. The engine will not know how to act with the new oil. It will probably start burning it now or something knowing my luck. :uhoh2:

I still have the old oil and filter. I am going to find some batteries for my camera and take a photo. One would not believe it, unless they seen it for themselves. :shifty:

Didn't the po keep any maintaince records? How is the oil pressure?

If it is as bad as you say (and I'm not doubting you), you may think about another oil and filter change earlier than you may have as all the new oil cleans out any accumulated crud.

Cheers

Good idea, he used a diesel rated oil to so it will clean like crazy. I'd drop the oil again in another 1k-1.5k miles to clean it out.

Hattaras- the oil pressure was good, but I had doubts at one point today after that episode with the tranny. As we have already discussed in some areas when I asked where it should be @ when idling on my other topic. @ 1500 RPMS, it is @ the "3" bar, when the engine is fully warmed, which is where I was told it was supposed to be. At idle when in gear, at full temperature today (before the oil change) I noticed it had dropped to slightly above the "0" (.1) at 500 RPMS, but then as soon as it would get to 1500 RPMS, it was back at the "3". That is what had me concerned so much that I changed the oil this evening- I even missed on going to church with grandma. I knew it had to be done ASAP. When I drove it the 2nd time today after that, even when it was idling at 500 RPMS, it was then at the ".3" bar. However, when it was in park and idling around 750 RPMS, it was between the "1" and "2", even at full operating temperature. I am assuming all is well with those readings. As mentioned, I know nothing about these cars. I am guessing this oil was completely worn out. I will know more about the pressure on Tuesday, when I drive it again, because I am not driving the car tomorrow.

I am hoping the new oil will bring the pressure up even more at that low idle. It would probably have to, because that oil filter had to be clogged. I am going to try to find some batteries around here and take a photo, because it was really unbelievable.

You said that oil I used would "clean" the engine since I used "diesel rated" oil. You do not think it will harm the engine do you if it is not "used" to this type of oil? I do not want it to start burning oil or anything.

I was suprising how easy it was to change the oil. It was 5:15 before I even got back with the oil and filter and was dusky dark. It was pitch dark before I finished and I was using flashlight. :rolleyes: I was confused about the oil filter canister however. It still had oil in the filter canister. I just left it and stuck the new filter down in it. I did not know what else to do. I did not have a syphon.

BTW - No, no records at all. The original owner put 220K miles on it and while no records, I think they took good care of the car, thats pretty obvious. However, I think the second owner (guy I bought it from) did not do anything to it, over the past 43,000 miles. It also needs a muffler and now I think it needs brake pads. They (brake pads) are squealing. :rolleyes:

You will do no harm to your engine with clean oil - you are doing it a great favour!!

But, as I suggested, I would go for another oil and filter change after 1000 miles or so - it will probably look just as filthy.

No matter about a bit of oil left behind - theres lots more in there you wouldn't have gotten out.

Your idle sounds fine - just like where mine is.

Cheers

In my Benzes, fully warmed up, at idle, the oil press. is at 1.5 bar. As soon as you get to 1200-1300 rpm, the needle hit 3 bar.
I don't know if it has been suggested yet, but go to a dealer and order yourself a copy of the owner's manual. This will answer alot of your questions about oil.
I agree with the notion of changing your oil again in 1,000 miles. If the oil was that bad, then fresh oil will clean it up.

And that "1.5" bar is when it is idling in park, or in drive? When in park, mine it at 1.5 as well, but when running, it was much lower. I am hoping with the new oil/filter, it will read higher when in drive @ idle.

Fram vs Purolator...More junk or not????
 

Tom W: My current MB experience is in the W210 chassis.
What am saying is that you do not need to have a summer oil and a winter oil. There is an oil that meets that temperature band. We need not be afraid to try new things. I understand the feeling: I have done it this way for years, why change now.

RickJordan: We all think that all MB filters are either Mann or Hengst. Well, add Bosch to the list. You can never be sure. The cost of filter has increased in the last year. The increase interval (white net) filter will cost you $15 even from Phil and its $20-$22 from dealer. The regular filter is still about $6-$8. I only use the more expensive increase interval filter at least for the simple reason that MB knows something that I may not know.
Yes synthetic oil have been around at least 20+ years and I know of a highly regarded off highway diesel engine manufacturer that has used it at least that long. Some manufacturers just take that long to warm to a good idea. It is generally acceptable in the engine engineering circles that synthetic is superior to dino.. The higher engine efficiency demands due to emission control and higher thermal load just require the use of synthetic oil. Even older cars can benefit. I switched all my cars to synthetic.

86560SEL: The dirtiest and oldest oil I have ever seen!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.You can’t tell the condition of an oil by its color. Most spent synthetic oil are darker than the average dino oil. Hole in a filter is bad news. I am not sure the replacement purolator filter is any better than the fram.

True, but from the looks of that trashy filter, I would bet that oil has seen a LOT of miles. I will post a photo of that filter tomorrow. I think you will be amazed. :surprised

Purolater is probably crap too, but anything is better than what I removed from that canister this evening. :worried2:

If I knew that filter looked like that, I never would have even started that engine. It makes me cringe knowing it just made the 250 mile trip over here with that oil and filter in it. :sick:

Those Ferrari owners so piss poor after their purchase that they can only afford Fram filters. ;)

PA2TU,

I have never seen this "white net" filter. Possibly it is only for the newer engines. When I look up filters for my Benzes at Fastlane, I see the usual MANN, Hengst, Mahle, or Bosch. All with prices $8.50 or less. Even the HUGE canister filter (Mahle) for my Porsche is only $8.
I would be interested to find out how a filter can go longer before being changed out. The filter it's self isn't going to change the amount of "dirt" in the oil. By that I mean, yes the filter could be filtering better, but wouldn't that mean it would clog up sooner?

on the posters car
 

the minimum called for in t he owners manual at idle is i believe about .5 bar. so i hope you can get there after cleaning everything with new oil. folks who dont change the oil really steam me.

i have looked at cars before that had the oil below the dipstick and had knocking bearings and the seller is saying that the oil is changed religeously etc. i have no patience for liars. i have stopped at convenience stores on a test drive before and added oil in pity for the poor benz. one car i drove around the block and came right back since it was clearly knocking and i didnt want to blow a rod on the test drive.

once i drove a four wheel drive (ford i think) and when i went around a corner the axle with the wheel attached came out o f the rear axle tube about 2'. i parked it and walked back tothe sellers house.

idiots!

tom w

Actually, it was at "1.5" when idling in park. It was when it was idling in drive at full temperature at 500 RPMs is when it was around .1 / .2 mark, but that was only once, after that, it was at the .3, which others have said before is normal. This is a 20 year old car, with 263K, so I do not expect it to be perfect, but since it was at "3" at 1500 RPMS, I am sure it is OK. I will know more tomorrow how the new oil helps, because I am going to drive it tomorrow when I take it to have a middle muffler installed.

OK.... here it is! The WRETCHED oil filter.It made me :sick: when I saw it. I took these photos a little while ago. Yes, it is dark out, so sorry for the low/no quality.

I think I am going to throw up.

I told you it was bad..... :sick: :shifty: :D

Now if that filter was from a diesel, then that would be ok. Did you check inside the oil cap and see if there is any crud build up on the valve train?

Yeah, it looked fine inside the oil cap. Very suprising. I am guessing he may have changed the oil, but obviously never changed the filter. At least not in the 40,000 he put on it. Did you see the hole in the bottom of it?

Like I said, if I knew that oil/filter was in there, I would have never even started that engine. I just hope it does not start burning oil now because of this. It didn't as of yesterday. I will know more tomorrow.

[
It's enough to make a grown man cry! I simply do not understand why people would spend tens of thousands of dollars for a car and then worry about saving $2 on a filter or complain about having to use premium fuel.[/QUOTE]


I have to agree with Bud. As inexpensive as OEM filters are on ALL the online web sites, why even dicuss Fram or Wix or any aftermarket filters. Senseless.

after the holidays, I will probably cut open one of my new mann/hecht/bosch filters and post a picture. Or better yet.... change the oil and cut open one with 3k miles on it or so. I think it should give us a good idea if the filter is decent and may be provide some comparison to FRam or others...

I have no idea what they look like inside.. I think I pay somewhere between 4.50 and 5 bucks on line for them.

Beware of naive visual comparisons which do not include
 

proper tests with real equipment to measure flow, trapped particle size, and other important technical aspects.

Excellent. I drove the car on several trips today and the pressure is even better than it was before, which even then was right where I was told it was to be. Now, at normal operating temperature, when in drive, it is at the ".4" bar. Sometimes at the ".3" or ".5", but mainly on the .4. Also, now when it hits 1300 RPMs, instead of 1500 rpms, it is already at the "3" mark. At idle when in park, it is still on "1.5" or "1.6".