W140: Dinosaur or Collectable?
 

I think that the W140 MB was perhaps the biggest financial loss of any model introduced by MB in it's modern history. The reason for that was multi-fold: Over-complication of sub-systems; over-utilizing not-yet perfected technologies; over-assuming the size of it's marketing niche; and over-production in a world-wide recession. Do you see the repetition of the word "over"? I do believe this was a vehichle that was done to excess, be it intentional (I tend to think it was) or not.

Regardless of what the reasoning was, there are a LOT of these awesome cars out there and I own one of them. Before continuing, let's get one thing straight.....there is nothing about this model that is inexpensive: The original sticker price was roughly $95,000 and up to $120,000, and keeping one running in prime form has a proportionatly high price tag. Upkeep will continue to be high, and hopefully parts will continue to be available.

The 500 and 600 models in particular are examples of cars that probably will never again be built on that grandeous of a scale, and there-in lies my primary question: Is this a model to hold onto and pay to keep in A1 condition because it will eventually be a collector's car? Or, is this going to be a model that will be an undesireable dinosaur becuse of it's problematic tendencies??

I am looking forward to insightful relies:)

Good question, I'm wondering the same thing about the W126. I guess in 20 years we will all know.

With very few exceptions four door sedans don't become collector cars. These are cars that are going to face economic obsolescence long before the engines and chassis are worn out. It's hard for me to imagine who's going to want to own and operate them as aged used cars - poor people with big egos?, colleges students with trust funds? There's no market niche for them. They are not ever going to be inexpensive to operate - who's going to want to put up with them as daily drivers? Gas mileage is poor, insurance is high, parts and service are ridiculous. To me the historical significance of the 140 body is that it is the first Mercedes not designed for longevity - not because it isn't well built but because it lacks long term economic viability.

We don't have to worry about the W126. She's all bottomed out(for the most part). Take prices of the W116 and compare it to the W126. We have hit bottom, and will not move. However diesel models seem to slightly appreciate. Everything is sold on condition.

My 300SE will never be worth much, but its as good as any roadster to me.:(

I love my 126's two 81 SD's and an 86 500SE , there is no problem getting parts and except for a few engine related parts in general they are not any more expencive than say Honda parts, and they sure are eaiser to work on.

They are comforable , roomy, have large trunks, you have good vision, my diesels get 26+ MPG ,handleing may not be Porsche like but you know where they are on the road.

You sure don't have to look for a star on the hood to tell that a 126 in any of it's cofigurations is a Mercedes.With some careful shoping you can get a car that is great to drive and still turns heads for the price of a clapped out pick up truck..........

William Rogers........
Long live the 126...........

W108 / 111 coupe / convertible - worth a fortune
W108 / 111 saloon / sedan - worthless (except the 280 se 3.5)


whats the W116 coupe equivilant? was there one?
w116 450 6.9 - worth a bit...

126 500 SEL - worthless (relativly)
126 500 SEC - becoming a collectors car


so -
C140 500 or 600 coupe - will be a collectors car
W140 600 MIGHT be collectable, 500 less so, 280 - scrap / parts car.


just my tuppence (UK $0.02)

IMO collector cars are usually cars that someone seriously dreamed about owning at an earlier age and then could afford it at a later date. Many offer special features including a special engine (performance), a special paint scheme/interior and limited production. Some were also upscale cars that most couldn't afford when new like a Ferrari. Other cars become collectors because someone may have owned one years ago and it brings back great memories (many muscle cars) and they want to bring back that era in their life.

So now you need to consider how many people truly loved the W140 sedans and or coupes when they were available for sale as new and or how many previous owners would want one again. Were people commenting "I wish I could have that car" when they saw one? Honestly I don't know, I wasn't a huge fan but thats just me.

The thought of maintaining one might make sense since I doubt very few will exist in 10 years but I'd relegate this car to weekend joy ride duty to decrease maintenance costs and help maintain original paint/interior.

There are many cars in MB's history which have excessive maintenance requirements including the 600 and the 6.9 with air suspension, both are collectors. There are also many that offered very little maintenance requirements, none of which are collectors.

IMHO the W126 560SEC is already a collectors car, it's rare, many wanted one and they're beautiful. But again that's just my opinion.:)

for several years i always said whenever a 140 passed me that i wanted one - i just never knew there was a coupe version... soI fit in that catagory - now that it has become affordable (I paid £13K UK). pity the price of tyres hasn't dropped as much as the car value... :roleyes: i need a pair of fronts again (255/45 18)

a couple of comments I have here....first of all the stickers of the 6 cylinder and diesel were about 20K less than the 95K you quoted...and I think many of the later model cars sold for extreme discounts below sticker.I have hear that just as in the 126 that the 140 had HUGE markup in the sticker...this big discounts could be given.
As for the long term viability of these cars ..some can definitely be had for very cheap....an early 600 sedan for example...I do agree they can be very expensive to maintain and there are a lot of them out there that have not been maintained...that being said it is not a far that is forgiving of poor service..

but I am happy with particular example(value wise anyway)...the diesels seem to be holding value very well

Warren
1992 300SD 175K
Columbus Ohio

W140
 

Hello, could someone please tell me what does IMHO means??:confused:

Thanks Rob...

Re: W140
 

In My Humble Opinion

Also, IMO: In My Opinion

in my humble opinion=IMHO

Gilly

wow check out the post times Ted! IMHO that's pretty weird!

Cheeseheads must be tuned into the same station today. :p :D

A lot of insightful comments.....but none that have given me what I was looking for: A reason to rationalize owning three Benz's, and especially that gorgeous money pit called a W140 500SEL. LOL...just kidding, I love having all three of them. My particular 500 is a thoroughbred put out to pasture, and once I have it fully (ok, perhaps 90%) showroom it will remain there for a long time. Garaged, in the arid SW, 3-5k miles a year.....it will be an example of MB engineering excellence and marketing...well, let's say less than excellence, for a long time to come. Actually, I do believe it will become the equivlent of what the 126 is today. That car, in nicely maintained condition, is still a stately presence on the road, and is admired by anyone who relishes fine MB's.

Ya, lets say that. To say the least......if not less. These things were the Mercedes equivilant to an Edsel.

This is me=:( turning blue holding my breath for that to happen.

Gilly

As stated in a previous post, the collector car market doesn't view four door cars highly. The only exception is when you have a very limited production run, of which the W140 is not.

To bluntly anwer your question, the W140 and W126 will never be collector cars. Mercedes simply made too many of them and a lot of them have generally been well cared for so many will survive. The only possible exception would be the S600 in 40+ years from now. Don't maintain your car thinking you will make money.

If you've never read Sports car market magazine you should give it a shot, it's a great publication that gives a broad understanding of the collector car market.

I think that day is already here




Warren
1992 300SD 175K
Columbus Ohio

i find this a challenging thread. for these reasons...

i am the original owner of a 1986 560sel. it has been conscientiously maintained over its 254,000 miles. i will never get rid of it. no matter what the market might think, i consider it the watershed automobile of the postWW2 era. even better, i continue to love driving it.

several years ago, when i refused to take delivery of the 2000 benzes that i had on order, i went looking for a c126. found one infrequently driven by an original owner, a widow. a great vehicle. when i found it, it looked brand new. and it was with 42,000 miles in 13 years.

now, john olson of sl marketletter tells me that i should have been buying the roadsters, which have been appreciating. but i don't like them. not enough room. and the 560sl doesn't handle as well as the 560sel, 560sec. and the pagodas, bless their souls, just don't go fast enough for me.

i am the original owner of a 1995 e320cab. it is a nifty vehicle. perhaps it is a collectable. would have been more of one had benz not started mass-producing clk cabs in the last few years.

and last year, i found a very low mileage 1997 c140. perhaps it is a collectable. it is an odd transformation of the c126. and i am having a difficult time deciding whether i like it or not. it is a faster, more fuel efficient vehicle, to be sure. but i find it hard to love.

the seats are the most uncomfortable. and that is odd, isn't it? the most monstrously costly vehicle that benz manufactured in the post ww2 era and it has lousy seats. if there were ortho seats, and i keep this car, i might entertain a substitution. odder still, the car is larger than my c126, yet it offers less leg room.

at this moment, i think that the entire 140 series will be viewed as one of the greatest mistakes in automotive history. and by extrapolation, i can now see how benz management became obsessed with acquiring chrysler, mitsubishi, et alia.

the 140 series will be considered the bowsprit of daimler-benz and deutsche bank hubris.

my thoughts on the subject. fwiw. 2 cents.

WI140 VALUE
 

OK As a owner of a W140 1993 300SD of which there were I believe less than five thousand produced . I can say that I consider my perfect condition MB a great deal at a time of high fuel prices. And having taken two years to find this one owner Naples, Fl. ride I believe it to be a good investment. I know for a fact that I can get my money back at any time. I only drive it in the summer months , and have been asked several times if it was for sale. So until I get the itch for a 930 again , All I can say is HAPPY TRAILS TAG













i

The 600 is a limousine, not really a sedan, and very limited production. It's clearly got rarity going for it. If 6.9s are collector cars they are awfully low priced ones - and I think still dropping. I think they are a great example of how maintenance costs can impair the value of an older car.

When you think that Mercedes is going to produce 3500 SLR's total and 1,000 Maybachs every year, my 350SD has to be pretty rare. Only 2,066 were ever made, and it was the second rarest W126. The rarest being the 560SE.

My SDL is rare as only 13,800 were made entirely worldwide.

I have a 560SL, which is a roadster, no worries there.

I have a '97 E420 which was only built for one year(but I don't think it will be collectable).

I have a 300SE....But I don't care what the market says about that car. Its a nice one.;)

The W140 is the most over-engineered car Mercedes-Benz has ever produced (including the Mayback, which is based mostly on the W140).

Its development phase went so over the budget that the project manager was fired just after production begun in 1991.

Even by charging stupid selling prices, M-B really never made a cent on it The 1995 facelift tried to lower production costs on many fronts, but the car remaind just simply too expensive to build, too expensive to buy, and too expensive to mantain.

Based on all of the above, that is why the W140 is the most amazing car to own and drive. Everything about it from bumper to bumper screams quality, great design and perfection.

The W140 mechanical flaws are well known to all members of this forum, and if you keep them checked, there should be livable (not cheap, but nothing is perfect).

I have driven B.M.W.s, new Mercedeses, Jaguars, Audis, Volvos, Lincolns, Cadillacs, Lexuses, Infinitis, Alfas, Lancias, Peugeots, Renaults, Citroëns, (ALL tope of the line models) and NONE even come close to the driving pleasure and security that the W140 delivers.

The W140 might never become a true collector's dream, but an example well kept will always draw full admiration and ovation from passers by (as any W116 or W126 do right now).

IMHO, the W140 was the most over-complex Mercedes ever built. It is not the highest quality Benz(but it comes very close), I believe the 600 and 770 Grosser deserve that honor, and it is not the most reliable. Who needs power rear view mirrors or antennas that show the end of the trunk? Just more stuff to break and cost money.

The W140 was the only Benz I know of that could be nearly mistaken for a truck, lol. :rolleyes:

The Maybach was built on the W140 chassis though. Probably for Mercedes to save money again(sigh).

I think all those things just add to the uniqueness and cache of the vehicle...if you want a cheap no frills car...you should not be looking at a 140 anyway

I'll chime in on that one also....I have gotten more compliments and questions asking me if my car was for sale than the 124 or 126 body car I had put together.

I l,ike the other gentleman. hunted for my particular car for over a year before I found one.
I personally think that a few things the 140 does like no other benz before it....the ride of the car,the general "tanklike" quality of it and the quality of some of the accessories...stereo,various electric systems...I tell people its an overengineered tank...a car of the likes that will probably never be built again...(perhaps the Maybach?)



Warren
1992 300SD 175K
Columbus Ohio

Dare I say, like a Duesenberge (I know I spelled that wrong) There was a time I was told when they could be bought real cheap. Maybe the W140 is a modern one?

I hope the W140 will be loved like a Duesenberg in 60 years when most of us will have fallen over. Unfortunately Mercedes simply made way too many of them. Like most premium collector cars, the were only about 600 Duesenbergs built of which a hair over 400 exist today. This is why the prices of these range from $400K to $1.5M. A decent mercedes four door of the same era can be acquired for $40k or less.

Based on what I have seen in the resale market...140 cars will not be a great value when you look at current resale...especially in the S320 and S600 interations......
this issue seemed to get worse when the new S-class car was introduced.Although I think the same issue applies to the 126 body car
I have looked at the 140 coupes and even with their rarity I have been amazed at what you can buy a 98-99 S600 coupe for...a good example can be had with 50K miles or less for under 30 grand...talk about a car that stickered for $135,000 now going for the upper 20's....do the math on that one



Warren
1992 300Sd 175K
Columbus Ohio

I wanted to change a comment I made earlier about the car becoming rare/collectable because of maintenance or lack thereof. My thinking was flawed, if this were true all new MB's would be collectables in 12 years.:rolleyes:

I think more like 7-8 years would be the case if the repair/maintenance cost versus the value of the car is the sole reason...then there are many listers in this forum that are upside down as they have put more money in the vehicle that its current market value



Warren
1992 300SD 175K
Columbus Ohio

wow....it's obvious by the number and intensity of posts to my original thread , that there is a true dicotomy when it comes to the 140. Strangely enough I embrace both sides of the issue: I believe it was a way over-engineered car with it's share of flaws, very expensive to own and maintain....but, by the same token I think it is a phenominal automobile with attributes beyond ANY other car made. It will never become a collectors car per se (particularly in the sedan incarnations), but it will always impress. Someone had mentioned in a previous post that the 600 was a virtual limo. The same can be said for the 500SEL but with a slightlly smaller engine...these are not your typical 4 door sedans!
BTW...when I first obtained my 500 I too thought that the power (inside) rear-view mirror was simply WAY over-indulgence and was totally unneccesary. But, there is reason behind the madness: It's the only way that mirror position could be retained in driver memory. As for the "antennae" defining the rear corners.....wouldn't it be a shame to bump a $100,000+ car into something backing up because you (or an occasional driver, such as a valet parker?) wasn't sure exactly where the corner was? As far as "just something else to go wrong"....if it goes bad and you didn't like it to begin with then don't fix it....it's not like it's a critical componant.
I had been considering selling my 500, and even had two inquiries when it was in the shop for rear suspension work, but I simply don't think I can part with it.....warts and all. :cool:

Hmmm... didn't 140's become a more "reliable" (for lack of a better term) after a particular year. Was it '95? Seems to me there were some changes made, but I don't recall.

post 96 ones were supposed to be better.

my 148,000 mile CL isn't perfect (re-spray identified by body shop, stone chips - badly fixed, squeeking door card / dash interface, parking sensors dodgy, extreme heat erratic idle after long journey / long trafic jam)
- but compared to my GF's vauxhall / opel / GM astra (2 litre 16V 4 cyl 200 bhp 750 kg iconic boy racer car) 1990 110,000 mile car with completely shot wings (8 hours of swearing and welding by me) it isn't in bad condition imho...

Yeah, I got a better term for you; After 1994, they weren't quite as big of a heap, but they were still heaps.

Gilly

I don't find that those are really that useful...better than nothing for such a large car...yes.....but not really that useful in a tight situation...

the newer park distance controls(..ie..parktronic) are much better at this ...maybe thats why they stopped with the antennas after 96(?) and some of the later models indeed have the new park distance control

As for realiability there is no doubt the latter ones were better...actually if you have an early one with updated parts, its a lot better and actually pretty realiable
The first couple of years of ownership of my car were a nightmare..the car spent a lot of time at the MB for repairs that were thankfully done under warranty and I think I got most of the updates that MB had done on the car and its related repair parts at the time
The last three years I have had only problems that you would associate with any benz that is 12 years old and has 175K miles


Warren
1992 300Sd 175K
Columbus Ohio

Hehe, I'll stick with the 126s for a while. :)

I second that emotion......

Gilly

Completely different cars...like night and day
Once you get accustomed to the 140....all the gadgets included its hard to go back
Having owned both 126 and 140 cars I can tell you there is a big difference



Warren
1992 300SD 175K
Columbus Ohio

.......And having worked on both the 126 and 140 cars, I totally agree there is no comparison (keep the 126 Ted!)

Gilly

Gilly....my, you have what appears to be a disproportionate distaste for this particular model....care to elaborate exactly why? My first guess is that you had one that cost you a small fortune....am I correct?

do you expect anything that expensive to be cheap to fix?

if financial outlay is the primary concern you would probably be looking at another make period...don't you think?

where is the line between what you are willing to deal with because you like it much more(and will pay more for it) and what you call just a utility piece where the least expensive article gets the nod...just because of price?

and btw the tech that has done 90% of the work on my car has never complained about working on the vehicle...seems to know the vehicle inside and out along with its faults and strengths..never heard him express any difficulty

Warren
1992 300SD 175K
Columbus Ohio

Agreed. My parents owned a Star-Marked '97 for a short time. Black/grey S500. When they moved into a house with a long, steep nasty driveway, it was time to sell. As a Minnesotan, the winter made it difficult to get into the dernded garage.

I picked it out for them, sent them pics and the purchase was made -- so I had a chance to drive it quite a bit. Fast, smooth, quiet, but perhaps too quiet. In the last 15 years, my daily drivers have all been old Detriot iron. So obviously I appreciate the "feel" of any 126 V8. :)

Guys, please don't dump on Gilly.

This is a discussion about 2 Mercs that are at least 25 years apart in terms of technological development and electronic innovation. As mentioned before, there's no comparison.

BUT I do know that it's a much easier to wrench on a 126 than a 140. Then again, it's easier to work on a slant 6 Mopar than a Dodge Viper V-10. ;)

That 97 should have been a very nice car...Xenon lights and ESP I think were standard on that model beginning in '97

you are right about the quiet(although not Lexus quiet)...but my particular 140 is a diesel and is still much quieter(inside the car) than the Chevy company car that I have which is new

curiously I always wonder how people in snow climates have dealt with a car like the 126 that big ,rear wheel drive and had no traction control features.
I moved to the midwest the south and I am not evn in what si called the snow belt...but i'll tell you I refuse to look at any car that does not have traction control and preferably ESP


Warren
1992 300Sd 175K
Columbus Ohio

I have coveted a W140 sedan more than any other car, and at the same time, I am scared to death to own me. Yet, despite (or in spite of :eek: ) my fears, I'm sure I'll own one some day.

I love reading threads like this that discuss the merits / faults of the W140's, how they compare to the W126's, and whether or not they represent the pinnacle of Mercedes quality.

It's amazing how many people post the opposite - that they are the biggest p.o.s. MB ever produced. How can they be the thought of as the best and the worst at the same time? Can anyone think of any other car that illicits similar extremely opposite responses?

What I don't get is the fact that other than a few parts that fail(ed) at too high of a rate (a/c evaporators, door closing assist pumps), they seem to be, dare I say, bulletproof? The M104 and M119 engines have great records of reliability.

Last, I know everyone dumps on the early models, but once they have been gone over and all the frequent failure items replaced, aren't they every bit as good "updated" later models?

I'm all ears........

Well here in south cental WI, our winter conditions are nothing like Minneapolis or any of our friends 200 miles north or even east towards the big lake.

I've never had any problems moving the 126 through the snow. First week of Jan 2000, we drove the 560 from Texas to WI (1200 mile trip).

Hit a horrible ice/sleet/snow storm that tortured us from Houston to southern MO. I was running the ole' 126 on Bridgestones that were ready to give up the ghost. Tough driving, but we made to central MO unscathed. Funny thing is that that we saw about 100 vehicles in the ditches and I'd say most were SUVs. :) The 126 felt very competent, even with dead skins.

As far as "quiet" inside goes....I doubt there is anyone, anywhere who could produce one with an eerie silence that the 500 & 600 140's have! It's a result of two and a half tons of steel, glass, plastic, rubber and whatever else they used, combined with double-pane windows and vacuum seals on the doors. The car, as has been well-referensed (sp) in this respect, is over-engineered...but is in this case better off for it. For those who have not ever experienced this quietness....it is awesome. You have no idea what music sounds like inside of a vehicle traveling down a road at 75mph!

I would agree with that statement having an early with with a myriad of replaced updated parts




Warren
1992 300SD 175K
Columbus Ohio

A very well stated point


something like saying a base model 1980 240D is much easier to work on that a 1987 300SDL...so why doesn't everyone go for the 240 since its cheaper to work on?


Warren
1992 300SD 175K
Columbus Ohio

Good question. You have guys like me who appreciate cars which are relatively "simple": Less gadgets the better.

With the exception of a decent audio system (which can be added to any old car) I'm not much for gizmos.

When I buy some old iron, I look for crank windows, manual seats, no cruise, and at times power brakes since modifying the crank can wreak havoc in that area.

But back to to the Benz -- W126 is perfect for me. Not too many gizmos, a wonderful chassis, built like a tank, but not excessive. Good for a guy my size...

Don't get me wrong though, I've had my eye on a few 140s, but the wife won't have part with old blue. :)

If so inclined, I would sell my 126 and buy an 500E. Throw some Blizzaks on that pup and we'd be ready to roll for the WI winters.