I can smell r-134 when I start the car. I have to add r-134 three times a year, but I don't add coolant.

Cap'n:

you can't smell R134, but you CAN smell the compressor oil, especially if it's mixed R12/PAG.

You should really replace the evaporator, since water in the system (and some leaks in while the freon is leaking out) will evenutally cause the formation of hydrofluoric acid as the R134 decomposes. This will, obviously, corrode the crap out of everything.

Peter

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

Hey Larry, I wouldn't sweat the evaporator.

I always joke with my mechanic, the owner of Mr. MB Motors, about the impending failure of my evaporator, but he reassures time and time again that evaporator leaks are not common in his 30+ years experience of working on Mercedes vehicles exclusively.

He swears it is the exception, not the rule.

__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

I was going to give a similar reply but Paul beat me to it. For the handful or tens or even hundreds of a particular failure we read about here (such as evaporators or head gaskets) how many thousands or tens of thousands are there that never fail. We sometimes form an unrealistically pessimistic view of something simply because we read about it here many times. 124 evaporator failures do not appear to be a common problem here in Oz and I can see no good reason why things should be all that different there.

Now that winter is almost over here in Sydney, I guess I had better find out why my 190E won't hold refrigerent! I can at least report that the 300TE has only once needed a re-gas in the 6 years we've owned it. Even with a 134a retrofit it still has no problem keeping the large cabin of the wagon cool.

__________________
107.023: 350SLC, 3-speed auto, icon gold, parchment MBtex (sold 2012 after 29 years ownership).
107.026: 500SLC, 4-speed auto, thistle green, green velour.
124.090: 300TE, 4-speed auto, arctic white, cream-beige MBtex.
201.028: 190E 2.3 Sportline, 5-speed manual, arctic white, blue leather.
201.028: 190E 2.3, 4-speed auto, blue-black, grey MBtex.
201.034: 190E 2.3-16, 5-speed manual, blue-black, black leather.

I would like to think that we can be optimistic. I do worry about the evaporator, wiring harness, and head gasket. I suppose I am most worried about the evaporator, partly due to the large cost, but mostly because I am worried that the car will never be the same after they remove the entire dash. It just seems like I would end up with all kinds of creaks, jiggles, and misalignments after the reinstallation. From my experience with other cars, little bits and pieces always break when you remove things like the dash, the door panels, and other pieces. Maybe the W124 will come apart and go back together better than the cars from my past. The head gasket and wiring harness just seem like small inconveniences, compared to the evaporator. Although I suppose it might be a nightmare trying to sort out the electrical issues before getting a diagnosis of a bad wiring harness.

Optimism seems like a good idea. I will just fix the darn things if they break. It will still cost less than buying a new car and I doubt I would love a new car as much as I love this awesome W124. As long as it is a dependable vehicle, so I do not get stranded on the highway, I plan to drive it as long as possible.

How many miles or years do you think I can operate my 1995 E320 with 81,000 miles, before a long list of nagging problems ruins my relationship with this car? Lets say dealer maintained following all of the MB guidelines, oil changes every 3,000 miles, and fixing anything that breaks along the way. I know it is good to fix things right away, so that you don’t get a long expensive list of what are really very little repairs.

How optimistic do you think I can be? Is 500,000 miles too optimistic? Is 30 more years too optimistic? I would like to think that it will last until new cars do not run on gasoline or they are so efficient that they get more than 100 mpg.


I just love this car

__________________
I just couldn't give up on my 1995 E320.

I think it might be like always going back to that same bad relationship with an ex girlfriend.
You feel you love them too much, or you are just too stupid to know any better.



Flickr slideshow of my 1995 E320
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24145497@N06/sets/72157616572140057/

I'm going to be doing an evap change out on my "new" 85 300D after the weather cools down a little bit. I can see some "greenish" tint in the condensate that drains out onto the garage floor. I bought it knowing it had this problem and that is why it was pretty cheap. I imagine the W123 is alot easier than the W124 based on reading through this column and having already removed/replaced a dash in my '81.

__________________
Jim

Wow, lots of posts since last night!

I was going to extend the steering wheel and leave it in place, but my brother in law is an MB tech and said that it was so easy and quick to get off and was so handy to have out of the way, I went ahead and pulled it. He was right. It took absolutely no time to get it off. I wish the rest of the project was that quick and easy.

I did check exhaustively for dye in the condensate drain water and looked up at the transmission tunnel from underneath as best I could with the black light. I never found the slightest trace.

I understand the concern about creaks and squeaks after R&R of dash, but I've never had these kinds of problems with MB's like I have with other cars. They seem to put alot of thought into constructing things so that noises don't occur, even after major service. I've never done a dash before, but other things like doors and such don't seem to be noisy after major service.

I don't think 500,000 miles is out of the question for a properly maintained 124 car if you have the right attitude. That is, when something breaks, you fix it instead of letting it run down and get away from you.

Jim, let us know how the 123 evap job goes. I remember being in an independent MB only shop several years back where the guy had a late 123 instrument panel apart to do an evap. He said that he would work on it a few hours until he got sick of it then go off and work on something else and come back. He made it out to be a terrible job. That said, the same guy admitted that he heavily preferred doing engine work.

Now back to my car. At this stage, I worry much more about my heater core leaking than the evaporator. The way the pipes fit in place I really hope that I didn't pinch on o-ring. I checked as best I could and the o-rings or so high there was no point in filling the radiator before buttoning up. I just don't see how coolant could get that high until I start the engine.

Yes, these cars are known for failing evaporators. When a failure rate is 15%, that is REALLY HIGH. That means that you have an 85% chance of not having the problem. So, "Do you feel lucky?..........Punk?" (For you younger readers, that's a Clint Eastwood line, I'm not calling anyone here a punk.)

Wish me luck,

I delivered an evaporator for a Volvo S70 a few days ago. You should have seen THAT mess!!!

I replaced the dash in the '81 300D when I first got it and did not consider that to be too much of a job BUT from what I have read you are only about 1/2 way there for an evap change. If you ever want to see how an evaporator should be installed in a car change one out in a Honda - on my "job scale" rating it is easier than changing a starter on a '85 300D. If I ever meet the engineer that designed that I am going to buy him a beer.

__________________
Jim

BURRrrrrr........!!!!!!!!!!!

I started it up and put the vent thermometer back in place. The car could not have been running three minutes and I was ready to back out and give it a try. By that time the vent temp was at ab out 46 degrees. I got down the road maybe a half mile and it was at 38 degrees.

Now, that all sounds great, but it is only 85 degrees ambient. Still comparing to performance at 85 degrees before the podectomy, I'm SURE that it is better.

There are still some unknowns however. When I got back after about five miles I opened the hood to check the radiator level. It had not gone down, and the heater valve lines were hot going in and cold going out. After supper, I'll go take it for another drive and turn on the heater. Until then I won't know if the heater core is sealed up properly. I do believe everything else is okay though.


I will potentially take issue with engatwork about the Honda evap being the easiest ever. I can't imagine it being any easier than my wifes 4Runner. It was absolutely incredible.

If engineers had to work on these cars, maybe they would have a little mercy.

I'll keep you posted on the final clean up and heater check. Meanwhile I've just GOT to remember to keep a sweater in that car.

Have a great day,

Larry:

At 85F ambient and the temp wheel set for 75-80 F (where mine is), you will get water through the heater core -- I could hear mine gurgling as the monvalve opened and closed (water goes in the top, out the bottom -- you will get some noise until the air works out).

As you know, you will "use" some coolant until all the air works out. May take a while, both of mine did.

Got mine buttoned up today, everything seems to work fine except the ash tray light (can't find the last bulb, I dropped it somewhere) and I have no screws holding the ashtry in -- didn't have any to start with since the previous person who did this job didn't put them back then!

Peter

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

psfred,

I guess we need to throw a podectomy success party.

Since my post last night, I turned on the heater for a little while. I did not smell antifreeze. It was hot enough that I didn't want to open the cap to top it off. I will top it off this morning and give it a much longer test run.

everyone,

Of course, we are having the lowest temperature this morning that I can ever remember in August. It must be 70 degrees or lower outside. I can still run it and see if the heater core leaks. That's my biggest concern at this point.

I haven't checked all my little lights yet. If there are any not working I don't mind working through that. As long as I don't have to pull the dash off any time soon, I'll be a happy camper.

Now I can get back to working on my shop. That is until something else breaks. My next car project is putting a fresh timing belt on my wifes 4Runner.

Now I need to put that sweater in the car before I forget.

Thanks to everyone for all the replies, advice, pointers and listening to my rambling.

Have a great day,

Good job, Larry.

I'm looking forward to sampling the efficiency of the a/c when I'm next in Dallas.

__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

Paul,

I'm looking forward to it. Don't forget to bring a sweater. The vent temp hangs at 38 degrees now.

I just drove it about 45 or 50 miles, no antifreeze smell and great performance. I think it's ready for those 105 degree days that just aren't coming this year. Too bad.

Have a great day,

Congrats Larry on a job well done. See, it wasn't all that bad a job...

What I really appreciate is that by putting in all this effort to bring your a/c to tiptop condition, you have virtually guaranteed us the coolest August on record I just checked the national weather service forecast and they're predicting another cool front this coming Wednesday - high temp of 88. Gotta love it.

- JimY