1971 450 SL - Rag Top

[meltedpanda]

I have not posted here in the past. I am a diesel head but......
This is the deal. I have found a 1971 450 with 110K on the clock.
This was a Euro version that was brought over in 73 to be Americanized
Anyway it has been completely refurbished up to and including new top, new leather and paint (professionally done)
Many many parts replaced and runs like a top
The vacuum system has been bypassed and now uses levers to run either AC or Heat, both work great, upgraded stereo

wants $12500 and that is were I was brought back to reality, I mean this car is 34 years old - what do all you vintage guys think??

[leenart]

Originally Posted by meltedpanda

Anyway it has been completely refurbished up to and including new top, new leather and paint (professionally done)
Many many parts replaced and runs like a top
The vacuum system has been bypassed and now uses levers to run either AC or Heat, both work great, upgraded stereo

wants $12500 and that is were I was brought back to reality, I mean this car is 34 years old - what do all you vintage guys think??

$12500 is a bargain for a completely refurbished 450sl. Reality is thats cheap for a completely refurbished 450sl
Leonard

[nhdoc]

Originally Posted by meltedpanda

I have not posted here in the past. I am a diesel head but......
This is the deal. I have found a 1971 450 with 110K on the clock.
This was a Euro version that was brought over in 73 to be Americanized
Anyway it has been completely refurbished up to and including new top, new leather and paint (professionally done)
Many many parts replaced and runs like a top
The vacuum system has been bypassed and now uses levers to run either AC or Heat, both work great, upgraded stereo

wants $12500 and that is were I was brought back to reality, I mean this car is 34 years old - what do all you vintage guys think??

There isn't much specific about what has been done mechanically to the car. That's about what that car sold for new, so it should be pretty nice for that price. You can buy a much newer SL with nice original interior and paint for about that same price and you'll have a car which incorporates an entire generation of refinements into it. I paid $12,750 for my '88 last year and it was about as perfect as you could expect and it had a brand new soft top just installed prior to my purchase. Now, the '88 sold for $63K when new, has a driver airbag, ABS and an engine cradle assembly that doesn't crack like the early ones did. I may be off-base here but I think it is kind of pricey for one that old - I would think it should sell for under $10K even as you describe it.

[Peoria Benz]

Doesn't seem like a bargain, but may be a fair deal if it is really nice.
Remember, they made a BUNCH of this chassis over almost twenty years.
There are many to choose from. E-bay is currently showing 113 between 1971 and 1989.

[kbflorida]

all the new work is great, but does it come with good prior owner records?
you need to know if the car was properly serviced over the last 30+ years,
or just recently.
I'd say you're in a middle ground. It's not original paint so not a true A+ collector. Yet apparently it looks and runs great. So for a fun car to drive and own for fun, it might be a good price. If you're thinking of "investment" that's a real gamble. You do see some single owner 70s SLs listed in the $10-15,000 range.
Depends on how much spare cash you have.
But look for those earlier service records. See if its ever had a valve job, etc.

[leenart]

Completely refurbished in my book is completely refurbished, as in new leather, carpet, top, paint, engine, tranny, brakes, suspension. Yeah 12,500 is a bargain.
I have a 1965 220 seb coupe almost completely refurbished, with 40k on rebuilt engine, tranny, new brake system, paint, chrome, leather interior. Wouldn't sell it for under $12000

[nhdoc]

Originally Posted by leenart

Completely refurbished in my book is completely refurbished, as in new leather, carpet, top, paint, engine, tranny, brakes, suspension. Yeah 12,500 is a bargain.
I have a 1965 220 seb coupe almost completely refurbished, with 40k on rebuilt engine, tranny, new brake system, paint, chrome, leather interior. Wouldn't sell it for under $12000

With all due respect, the point is not what a seller would take to sell a car but what it is worth, i.e., both what a willing buyer would pay and what a seller would sell for. I would not sell my 560SL for less than $20K but I know nobody would pay that much for it so I just will have to keep it and enjoy it. Hence, it is not worth $20K (at least to anyone but me).

To say that $12,500 for that car is a "bargain" seems a stretch at best. Sure, if the car was refurnbished with the best quality work and materials (unlikely) and is perfect and needs nothing then maybe the price is not bad, but I have bought many, many used cars which supposedly were perfect and needed nothing and not one of them were and they all need something. If you think you'll be able to buy any 1970's vintage MB and drive it without doing anything but routine maintenance I think you are in for a rude awakening.

Also, people make the mistake of equating the amount of money they have spent on "refurbishing" their cars to their value. My last purchase, the 280SEL 4.5 had a folder full of receipts for work that had been done. More than $12K in the past year and $45K in the past 8 years. You are lucky to get 25% of the money you spend back when you sell it. In this case, the seller was unable to get $8K for the car in beautiful condition. I paid $7K for it and probably overpaid. And, yes, even after all that work it still needs things done.

Heres' the MOST expensive 70's era 450SL which has sold on ebay recently:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-Benz-400-Series-1974-Mercedes-Benz-450SL-Convertible-Hardtop_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6331QQitemZ4568676952QQrdZ1

In addition to the detailed list of items which were addressed recently it has substantially lower miles than the one which the poster had asked about. And this one sold for $9500.

These cars are expensive toys. They are not investments, nor can one rationalize owning them for any other reason but to reduce their free time and discretionary income to a bare minimum

[cth350]

If the car is eye-popping spectacular, offer him 7K in cash. Then walk away. You can buy a heck of a lot of car for 12k. -CTH

[ctaylor738]

Concur. $12,500 will get you a very very nice 560SL, which is a better car in almost every respect, if you can live with the US bumpers.

[leenart]

Ok lets look at figures here; $10,000 doesn't get you much and I can drop 10k on benz repairs in a heartbeat. The OP says this is a completely refurbished car. You should have receipts to back it up, plus this is the early V8 before electronics and smog control. I would jump at a 71 450sl before I walk up to a 560sl . The reason for that is because you have to estimate your maintenance cost on an annual basis. For the newer benzs you can't do that because you can not predict when the electronics will fail and when they fail, you have to estimate if it fails away from home, what the rental cost and repair costs are going to be and the repair costs are going to be way higher because you have to take your chances with the mechanic you get.
The electronics on newer cars are a consumer's dream, they are also godsend to the automotive industry. Face it the electronics on cars today are incrediable in what they can do.
The down side is when they fail. And when they fail its not a good picture. A decent new car costs $20,000. A sexy new car costs $30k+
Now for $12k you get a sexy car and for 12k it better have a lot of life left in it. Maintenace on that car ought to be $1-2k a year. So over 10 years that car will cost $32k including purchase, now can somebody find me a new car for $32k thats as nice?
Thats of course that you can document the repairs that have been done and the car really is completely refurbished.
As for my car, I wouldn't sell it for less then $12k, not that its for sale. And yes I would need a buyer. But I didn't buy it to sell it. I plan to drive it and after 10 years I might sell it. For a lot less then 12k, but I could never find a car as cool as it for what it has cost me so far.

[Paul David]

There are a lot of cars to purchase as an investment, this is not one. I live on South Beach, Miami and I would buy this, but I would buy it because I would feel good getting into it, speeding around corners and the looks of envious passers.
I would not get this from an 88,a great car but too young to be classic and too old to get the same attention. if I was worried about the what ifs that come from owning a used car, I would get the 88, but the complete rebuild covers this pretty nicely!
Go for it, you only live once! (becides, It is his ASKING price, make an offer.)

[Car Girl]

The bible for many of us interested in pre-70's old cars is the Old Cars Price Guide (I don't think it's on the web but most likely in the grocery store or bookshop). They give an excellent range of prices depending on the condition of the car. If it's as nice as you say it is, it doesn't sound too far off base especially if there is a solid ownership and maintenance history to go with what you see.

Old cars aren't cheap - Nice old cars can be very expensive! But like Mastercard says : The price of owning & driving a really beauty: PRICELESS.

[leenart]

I agree with what people are saying that this is not an investment car. Its a driver.
The main concern for a buyer of these cars is getting the seller to do all the repairs and then discounting those repairs to 25% of cost. Its easy to get a 450sl over 40k. Its another to get one at $12k that has receipts totalling $40-50k, which by the way we have not heard.
I thought I was hard on the 450 vs 560sl, but after I thought about it I think I was right. The early MB's are selling at or above their retail selling price; I picked up my 1965 220seb coupe for 5Kr, I put a new leather interior in it, got the tranny adjusted correctly, rebuilt the injection nozzles, distributor, choke, and upgraded the lights and wheels. I am over 12k. the car cost 9k new. And thats a fairly common car, look at the sl's or cab's! Lets not even talk about the 300sl or 280 se 3,5 coupe!
Now name me a car after 1975 that commands a premium....name me a car after 1975 that is expected to command a premium....
There are none. Electronics has killed the collector market. Even a fully restored w108 280se 4 door commads more money then it sold new.

[meltedpanda]

awesome discussion everyone and appreciate the info. As far as the body and interior this has been professionally restored. The owner is a body shop owner and is well respected for his work. I need to investigate the engine side more. He has replaced prety much all of the steering components, many of the vacuum pods , rotors, new tires, new soft top, front windshield. I do not think the carpets have been redone. The seats are firm. As I mentioned, upgraded and professionally installed stereo.
The car is white with a palamino interior, I do not know if that is original color scheme, I guess I should ask.
12k is a lot of $. But as many have said it is asking price. he did say he needed to move it because he was getting ready to move his business and was one more car taking up space.
He mentioned this was a Euro model tht spent its first year in Germany before becomming americanized? . Just what does that mean?
I am in hopes to drive it this week, after the torential rains ease.
He does not like to put it out in the rain

[kbflorida]

[QUOTE=meltedpanda]. I need to investigate the engine side more.--

MP- yes, you do really need to have the engine looked at. Bottom line
is that these are cool and seductive cars - so cool that they can distract from serious issues hidden under the beautiful surface.

Are the camshafts OK? Any ticking sound from the right side, especially?
Have a compression test done. For 12k the engine ought to be good, too.
If it's not you could have a lot of work or $$, no matter how beautiful the
outside is....