1965 220sb problem - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

mamali · #1 11-30-2005, 09:50 PM

Hi I think I am over my head. I got a 220SB Fintail for free. Body has some rust, interior is okay. The motor is not runnung. Lat time used by the old owner it over heated and will not start any more. It will turn over by hand but thats all. Shops around here charge an Arm and a leg. I was looking for a used motor, crate is too expensive and am not sure about used not tested! Any help or suggestions. PS I am no mechanic by any means. Should I start with the head or buy a used motor? Thanks

nhdoc · #2 12-01-2005, 07:36 AM

This is a tough one. If you are not mechanically inclined and have no interest in doing work yourself then I can almost guarantee you are going to spend more on this vehicle than you think and maybe more than it is worth, depending on the extent of the rust.

Rust can be superficial or terminal. First, have the car looked at by someone who knows what they are looking for to determine if the rust is structural and if so then you'll know why you got it for free. What looks like a rusty rocker panel can be structural and be a significant safety hazard. If the rust is extensive and structural I would suggest you not spend any money on trying to get it running but simply list it on ebay as a parts car and move on.

If the rust is superficial then you're probably looking at spending at least $500 if it just needs a head gasket and head work done, or much more if the trouble is more extensive. In mint condition these are not terribly valuable cars and you could easily spend more than the car is worth on just getting it road-worthy.

Remember the old saying: "There's nothing more expensive than a cheap (or free) Mercedes" It's one thing if you can do the work yourself and enjoy that so the only *cost* is for parts (which can be pricey). But if you're paying even $40 or $50 an hour to have someone do the work for you you'll find yourself so deep in a money pit you'll have trouble finding your way out.

mamali · #3 12-01-2005, 09:54 AM

I will try it. Thanks
First thing you need to do if you are not mechanically inclined is to find someone who is and pull the Spark Plugs and squirt some trans fluid into the cylinders and spin it over then do a compression check to see how bad it over heated as it most probablly blew a head gasket if it stopped runing when the previous owner got it hot then depending on the readings you can go from there . The car is worth dicking with if the rust is not too bad . Don't know where you find a used Engine worth messing with .[/QUOTE]

mamali · #4 12-01-2005, 09:58 AM

Hi and thanks for the reply. The rust is only surface under the front lights and the bumpers are a bit rusty. The rest seems to be fine. Interior is fine except for a crack in the dash and the wood by the windshield(Inside). I am prepared to spend up to 1K to get it in good runnung condition. By the way it is an Automatic transmission brakes etc are fine even it has been inspected!!! Any suggestions?

Mike

This is a tough one. If you are not mechanically inclined and have no interest in doing work yourself then I can almost guarantee you are going to spend more on this vehicle than you think and maybe more than it is worth, depending on the extent of the rust.

Rust can be superficial or terminal. First, have the car looked at by someone who knows what they are looking for to determine if the rust is structural and if so then you'll know why you got it for free. What looks like a rusty rocker panel can be structural and be a significant safety hazard. If the rust is extensive and structural I would suggest you not spend any money on trying to get it running but simply list it on ebay as a parts car and move on.

If the rust is superficial then you're probably looking at spending at least $500 if it just needs a head gasket and head work done, or much more if the trouble is more extensive. In mint condition these are not terribly valuable cars and you could easily spend more than the car is worth on just getting it road-worthy.

Remember the old saying: "There's nothing more expensive than a cheap (or free) Mercedes" It's one thing if you can do the work yourself and enjoy that so the only *cost* is for parts (which can be pricey). But if you're paying even $40 or $50 an hour to have someone do the work for you you'll find yourself so deep in a money pit you'll have trouble finding your way out.[/QUOTE]

meltedpanda · #5 12-01-2005, 12:46 PM

follow my post on the 1971 220 in this section, "I am there, doing that"
as in refurbishing a car that has sat a long time, good luck

Vancouverfinnie · #6 12-06-2005, 07:43 PM

Like the guys said above - I would mainly be worried about the rust. Look in the trunk, and the rockers panels. I have rust in the rockers, but the rest of the car is pretty clean, plus, I too paid nothing for it, you can get replacement rockers and other panels from K&K - I am talking about the outside sheet metal versus the actual frame rails - if those are rusted through, look for another car... the rockers are not too bad, if the car is not sagging or anything drastic, then you might be OK, but as mentioned above, I would get it properly checked out, certainly because of safety issues. The floor panels tend to be suspect in these cars as well, and behind the headlights, bottoms of the doors too, the drains often get blocked, and get bottoms get rusted out.

The engine on mine was OK, it ran anyways, it was just that #1 piston was cracked. I have rebuilt the engine, replaced some parts in the crankcase that were worn, or no good, and I think all in all, I spent $1000 on parts so far, and then another couple hundred getting the carburetors rebuilt - which, mechanically, and fuel consumption wise, made a HUGE difference. I do have still to rebuild the head, but it is running well, may just do the valve seals if they are no good. No smoke now though!

I have also redone the electricals behind the dash - this is not alot of fun, but now everything works which is nice. To be honest, I have not had a big problem finding parts, Ebay has been a good source, and I have found a couple of people dismantling cars that I have bought the good parts from (always good to have a good spot to store the parts) - the problem with owning an old car, is that when you have trouble finding the parts, and then you find them, you tend to buy as many old parts as you can get for the fear (probable in some cases) that at some point that part may break, and you won't get easy access to it. Hence the spare head in the hall closet at our place right now (I was told to move this to the garage by the boss on the weekend!).

Good luck with it, sounds like you are where I was two years ago.
Rory

#7 12-06-2005, 11:29 PM

The good thing is that engine still spins, make sure you have good spark and try priming with 1/2 sea foam/1/2 fuel. It should start. Oil floats on water, take out the drain plug and see if the engine oil is contaminated. How does the coolant look? The old 220 engines are bulletproof. It might be a ignition issue/carb issue causing a no start. Also, check for tight valve settings.

In europe, many 220S/SE vehicles have had later model MB engines installed(mostly diesel). Remember that severe overheating will make piston rings collapse. So even if head gasket is replaced the engine will be a smoker if the rings have suffered. You could always do a re-haul. Rings, bearings, and gaskets. Though it's probably easier to replace the engine if it is toasted.

Save it. These cars grow on you. I wish I still had my euro 230S.

mamali · #8 12-16-2005, 10:13 AM

[QUOTE=John Holmes III]Hi John would it be possible to put 220d motor in this vehicle? Mine is auto other is 5 speed?

The good thing is that engine still spins, make sure you have good spark and try priming with 1/2 sea foam/1/2 fuel. It should start. Oil floats on water, take out the drain plug and see if the engine oil is contaminated. How does the coolant look? The old 220 engines are bulletproof. It might be a ignition issue/carb issue causing a no start. Also, check for tight valve settings.

In europe, many 220S/SE vehicles have had later model MB engines installed(mostly diesel). Remember that severe overheating will make piston rings collapse. So even if head gasket is replaced the engine will be a smoker if the rings have suffered. You could always do a re-haul. Rings, bearings, and gaskets. Though it's probably easier to replace the engine if it is toasted.

Save it. These cars grow on you. I wish I still had my euro 230S

#9 12-16-2005, 11:35 PM

Yes, a 220D motor would fit. It would be a real slug though. I would look for a 240D or a non turbo/turbo 300D motor. I have seen a turbo 300D motor in a 1969 280S W108 body. A diesel conversion would be a real headache compared to gas. These are done in Europe because gas is so expensive. I would try to make sure you motor is beyond reapir before you condemn it. The car is only original once. You always have the option to re-power. Good luck. I'm sure we can walk you through a thorough(sic) examination of your current motor.

t walgamuth · #10 12-18-2005, 05:25 PM

from a 66 230 that is good. has valves and springs, no cam. if anybody needs it.

tom w

cth350 · #11 12-18-2005, 07:15 PM

the thing to, if you want to keep the startup cost down, is to find another benz straight-6 from a pre-1973 car (Any M180 or M130 motor) will do for now. If the motor isn't from another 220 or 220S, get the transmission with it.

There's a 220 motor on ebay right now that comes from down the road from me. -CTH

mamali · #12 12-22-2005, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

from a 66 230 that is good. has valves and springs, no cam. if anybody needs it.

tom w

Hi Tom just noticed your post is that a fintail body. Will a 66 work on a 65? WHat will you take for it?

Mark DiSilvestro · #13 01-02-2006, 12:37 PM

Well, I took a look at Mike's 220S yesterday and it definitely was severely overheated. Noticed the gasket blown out from behind the waterpump and burnt coolant smell in the radiator.
First thing was all the exhaust valves were too tight so I re-adjusted those. Then some ATF in all the cylinders restored (at least temporarily) compression in most of them, at which point we were able to get a few 'pops' while cranking and noticed fumes/vapor spurting from the fitting in the head for the temperature guage bulb. So the head gasket is toast. Removing the temperature guage bulb revealed holes where the solder had melted out. So it needs a guage repair or replacement.
So it comes down to whether to pull the head and see if it's ruined too and, if the head is salvageable, will the ATF 'restore' the cooked rings?
Or simply acquire a used engine somewhere.

The good news, this is one of the most solid, 'unrestored' Fintail bodies I've seen in a long time. No signs of cancer anywhere except possibly where filler was poorly applied behind the front bumper to cover up a minor fender-bender. Otherwise there's a small ding in the right front fender and a few tiny surface rust spots. The floors and rockers look solid. Even the front bumper support looks competely intact. Interior is near perfect except for a few stains, a loose door trim strip and one crack on the dash pad. Most of the chrome is decent except for the front bumper and taillights. Now, Mike has to decide what to do next.

Happy Motoring, Mark

wbain5280 · #14 01-05-2006, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mamali

If any one wants to / can fix the motor let me know. Take it off my hand I give up. Any takers 1965 220 SB baby blue Auto not rusty good interior.

I'm inteerested. I'm out past Manassas, fill me in.

cth350 · #15 01-05-2006, 07:11 PM

I can supply a replacement temp guage sender to whoever decides to fix it.
I might even have the right head handy. There were lots of M180 varients over the years. I have no clue which heads, if any, are interchangable. Also fun things like the distance of the cam over the deck can easily be different.

Can you post the casting number on the head? It's on the side with the coolant sensor in 1/4" high digits, 180 xxx xx xx, there may be another set of letters/digits below it, something like "e 8.5" indicating the nominal compression ratio.

-CTH