Exactly as you mentioned, the answer from Pertx is

"I’m not familiar with those spark plug wires and I could not find information on the internet. Make sure that the center of the wire is NOT a solid wire or stranded wire. The Spark plug wires must be suppression or carbon type."

---------------------------------

Didn't OE wires had 5K ohms?


Graham, Do you know if these wires are used by newer model cars?

And what do you understand of the reply from Pertx about "The Spark plug wires must be suppression ..."

My setup is working correctly. Anyhow, I been using it for maybe a month..,. I can keep using them as a testing.

Should I try? Or something catastrophic can happen if the system fries?

I gave ignitor & flamethrower I in a box.., but I do like the adaptative dwell and shutdown protection of the II

I was definitely wrong and will correct earlier post. Looking back at some old posts, I think I originally measured about 8Kohms for my very old OE wires. Later, I believe other got lower numbers (and perhaps I did too) - around 6.6kohms. It was the new wires that I think measured 1.6Kohms (perhaps depending on meter used)


I don't know that, but suppliers only show MBs up to 1975. This may have to do with the distributor end connection which is different on the later cars. Wires may be the same.

Presumably wires deigned to suppress RFI and EMI.

I doubt anything worse than the engine stopping because the Ignitor failed.

I did contact Bosch USA. They confirmed that the 09027 wires are copper core wires.
I imagine the wires are similar to Magnecor copper cored wires as described here:
http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/7mm8mm.htm#CCS7
http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/files/7mm-copper-conductor.pdf

Question I have, is why Euro cars used the copper cored wires and is there any downside to switching entire ignition system to a more modern system? Not knowing how to get reliable answers to those questions leads me to leave well enough alone and run as close to OE as possible. Especially on a car that gets driven 2000 miles/yr!

Hi Graham,

I discussed the spark wire issue with a Pertronix supplier in Germany...my rusty German...and he was saying the Bosch 09027 wires definitely don't work (you said it already, thye are copper), at least not for Pertronix II. He was offering Pertronix wires (available per meter) and set of plugs. These wires are 7mm and
carbon. He was not concerned with resistance when I asked. But I can't tell if he reallty knew. (...Pertronix die Kohlefaser-Zündkabel passend für Ignitor II in sehr guter Qualität.
Es gibt zwar keinen einbaufertigen Satz für den MB, aber den universal-Kabelsatz.
Die Universal-Kabelsätze kommen mit den Kerzensteckern fertig montiert und werden lediglich zur Verteilerkappe hin passend abgelängt.
Lieferbare Farben: Schwarz und Rot. Preis: EUR 71,42 ohne MwSt.)

Martin

From what I read, Pert wires are ok, but really bad on the connectors quality.

I guess I'll need to change to Pert I... but as mentioned, my PertII and 90207 wires is working without any issue that I may be aware of.

All I can say, is that I installed the Ignitor I with 09027 Bosch copper core wires in July 2008 strictly as a point replacement and I have had no problems. But I have been careful to disconnect the red power wire to the pertronix if I am doing anything on car that requires the key to be turned on for any length of time.

In your case, assuming limited daily use of car, I would either stay with points or do as I have. That is unless you suspect that you have a problem with your coil or switchgear.

ADV-Rider - If your setup is working, then why change. But maybe carry your Ignitor I in trunk just in case!

I'll try to install the pert I next week to document differences... if nothing noticeable, ill switch back and keep testing.

but knowing myself, first thing i'll do is burn the ignitor I by leaving the switch on.

My hypothesis is that the Pert guys, recommend not using solid core wires based on the experience with wires like the ones used in competition without RFI protection, hot roders or really old type classic wires .... and that these Bosch wires and its high tech construction present no problems to pert II. Still I'll be searching about it.

Seems also that coil to dist wire is carbon core, right?

Graham, which spark plugs are you using? W/resistors or the NGK without?

I have not looked at the coil-distr wire. I assumed it was same wire as the plug wires. I am thousands of miles from my car. Is there anything printed on the coil wire that leads you to think it has a carbon core?

I have used both Bosch and NGK resistor plugs. Both companies recommend them and provided all sorts of tech data to back that up. I have checked my old car vs original performance specs (0-60 etc) and it meets or beats those specs.

But I realize many insist that non-resistor plugs work better. If using OE type wires with resistors both ends and about 6.6kohm overall, then they were originally designed to work with non-resistor plugs and that would probably be a good choice.

Thanks.

I'm also away, but it seems so from what i've been reading. I'll check it on sat or Sunday.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/4901172-post2.html

I check today and the coil to distributor wire does NOT have the "copper core" writing.


Werminhausen, how is it going?
It seems I have taken your thread, but with good intention.... It's all information you will eventually need.

Hi Adv rider,
I am good, I think I am staying with my good old distributor points and set up until the fog clears. Too many open construction sites on my car.

Please let me know when you have a definite solution for the system using
Pertronix I/II in terms of good quality wires/connectors (here the Pertronix solution might be weak?) and spark plugs. It seems that the entire system should be considered rather than single components.
Can someone bring possible solution including all data onto one sheet of executive summary ...once and forever? Graham?
\
Best, Martin

Once and forever??? Probably not likely :). Raining here in SC today, so I will give it a go!

It is actually very simple.

(A) For points replacement only, just install a Pertronix 1885. Works on most distributors except for later (75?) D-Jets that have both vacuum advance and retard. This will replace points.

(B)If switchgear is bad, then wire slightly differently so that Pertronix 1885 replaces both points and switchgear. In this case, add a Flamethrower coil and if tach doesn't work, add a 7-11k 1/2 watt resistor in line to tach.

Wires for all cars should be copper cored. The OE wires had resistors at both ends and overall resistance was about 6.6kohms.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/54783344/beru%20wires.jpg

Most newer wires are about 1-1.5kohm likely with resistor at distributor end only.

There are many opinions about plugs.

Many say we should use non-resistor plugs. That is what the cars originally had along with the higher resistance OE wires. Nothing wrong with going that way, but the wires can be expensive, if you can find them. Don't believe it if wires say they are to OE specs. Asks for the actual resistance.

Most current plugs are resistor plugs and have about 5kohm resistance. Plug manufacturers say that resistor plugs can be used with either type of wire. But a compromise may be to use Bosch or NGK resistor plugs only if the 1-1.5kohm wires like Bosch 09027 are installed. (That is what I have had on my 72 D-Jet for years)

Wiring
(A) - For points replacement only, connect Pert Red to switched 12v source. One side of 4k resistor works. Connect Pert Black to same point as original distributor green wire connects. See picture below. Add a ground wire from body of distributor (possibly direct to battery negative or a chassis ground).


More on basic install in this thread.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/atta...onnections.jpg

(B) - For points and switchgear replacement use the diagram below that was posted on this forum years ago.
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/atta...nix-wiring.jpg

NOTE: Not applicable after modification, but the arrow that says "TO Starter" should really be FROM starter. Basically, during starting, resistor is bypassed so as to not get a voltage dip due to starter draw.

For those concerned with burning out the Pertronix while working on the car. Only a problem if distributor stops in a certain place. Unlikely, but stuff happens. Solutions:

- Don't leave ignition turned on for extended periods without starting car.
or
- Install an in-line fuse or other type of disconnect in the 12v red line. If fuse, could be anything like 15A - just use it as a disconnect(not to protect) and pull the fuse when working on car.
or
- Simply disconnect the Red wire when working on the car (That is what I have done)

This is great recollection Graham! Many thanks.

For the record I will try and remember the second version for the Pertronix II solution ..if at all this can be called a solution, because it is questionable if we can go this route with the non copper cables (which Pertronix offered me in order to replace the copper cables)

1)
PERTRONIX Ignitor-II kit PTX91885 (advantage the unit can't be fried if key is in position 'drive' for longer and engine not running) EURO 143,69

2)
Flame-Thrower-II coil 45.000 Volt, black,
0.6 Ohm (Dia 55mm- old bracket is good) EURO
51,13 (with 1) and 2) the switch gear will be replaced similar to the Pertronix I option)

3) Cables: Flame-Thrower Stock Look Universalset PTX708180 7.0mm black net EURO 66,05
or
Flame-Thrower MAGx Universalset PTX808280 8.0mm in black, blue (PTX 808380) oder rot (PTX808480) net EURO 73,90

These cables are carbon fiber must me cut and crimped to length with appropriate crimp tool (around 80 Euros).... Cables have no resistors and it is unknown if this works for our MBs. Pertronix Germany couldn't tell.
Pertronix also offered the connectors (for distributor and spark plugs) but I heard these are not equal in quality we are used from Bosch? I can't tell
if someone can solve the cables the Pertroinix II might be a great option but without the copper free cables the system just doesn't work.

I hope I got this correct for the record.

Martin

I assume that resistor plugs shpuld be used with that configuration.

Martin - I would go with the Ignitor I. I have had my Pert I for years with no problems. So have many others.

You don't need to make all those changes. Your switchgear works. Only thing you could need Pertronix for, is to avoid changing ignition points from time to time. Unless your distributor shaft bearings are worn and you have wobble. Then a Pert may help.

Rather than go to Pert II and change all that stuff, I would stay with what you have. Points, OE coil, Copper cored wires.

But it is your car and money..... :rolleyes:

Hi Graham,
I am staying for now with my good old points, switch gear and OE coil.
This was just for the recollection of different options you might have when you are eager to change.
I'd follow your advise so in future and start easy with the Pertronix1 replacing the distributor point and keep point contact in case I'd fry the Pertronix.


Martin