The other thread about play in the steering led me to question exactly what it is about my finny that gives it that graceful old-world feel it has compared to modern cars. I'm not trying to start an old versus new debate or anything, just contemplating exactly what it is that gives an old car it's character in terms of operation. For me, I think the order is something like:

1) Steering
2) Handling/Cornering/Ride
3) Carburetors

The technology behind these items makes my car stand out in a good way, for instance the steering has a fluid constant quality feel to it which is in no way either "modern" or advanced. Part of it might be the ratio or the way the power steering aspect is engineered. What do you guys find most of all gives your car it's unique vintage feel on the road?

__________________
___
/<>/>/>
1967 230S automatic
Boston, MA

In a word? Plastic. New cars have every part possible made from plastic. Makes it feel cheap and disposable.

__________________
'98 E300 turbodiesel

1) Steering
2) Handling/Cornering/Ride
3) Unique smell of the car
4) style
5) Being able to see the road through the floor board

__________________
1976 240D
1976 240D parts car
1970 220D daily driver

The subtleties of suspension and chassis geometry are a dark and complex art, and the Germans (and Italians, too) were masters of it due to their mutual desire to go fast. Necessity (or in these cases, proclivity) is the mother of invention. Some common "good handling" denominators are:

Stiff chassis.
Low center of gravity.
Equal front/rear weight balance.
Low unsprung weight.
Independent suspension at all four corners (standard now on everything but not 40 years ago).
Quality shock absorbers.
Anti roll bars at both ends.
Relatively quick, play-free steering.

__________________
Berfinroy in CT
Present vehicles:
1973 300 SEL 4.5
1959 Rolls Royce Silver Cloud I
1959 Ford Thunderbird convertible/430
Past vehicles;
1958 Bentley S 1
1976 ex-Max Hoffman 6.9
1970 300SEL 2.8
1958 Jaguar MK IX
1961 Jaguar MK IX
1963 Jaguar E-type factory special roadster
1948 Plymouth woody
1955 Morgan plus 4
1966 Shelby GT350H Mustang

That old vintage aroma, like walking into a converted barn antique shop is definitely part of the charm, along with the giant wraparound picture-window windsheild and narrow pillars and the high seating position.

What I'm noticing though, is that the obsolete aspects of the car, those which are causing "flaws" in modern terms, such as a small engineered amount of play in the steering box, are exactly those devices that make the car feel different, fun and pleasurable compared to a new car with rack and pinion, throttle-by-wire, McStruts, etc.

True, there is play, but the correct amount of play is not obtrusive or alarming, and the smooth and easy operation of the steering, the big solid wheel, the ratio and position of the wheel and the ability of the car to maintain a nice straight course regardless of road surface and the "distantness" of bumps and nice reaction speed give it a very high class feel not present in current cars. The car doesn't even come close to performing like a new car but it doesn't matter. Similarly, the carburetors make the engine have a smooth, but connected low speed throttle response. Nothing juts or jars you at low speeds like so many newer fuel injected cars in heavy traffic. In a new car, you try to tip in the throttle, the car shoots ahead and then you hit the brakes before you plow into the bumper ahead of you. In an old car you press the pedal, the car oozes forward gently, very well controlled and then you gradually brake. Carburetors are all fundamentally compromised in operation, but they have a feel all their own.

__________________
___
/<>/>/>
1967 230S automatic
Boston, MA

My 71 280se is just one german car in a long line of family owned german autos. I was driven around in a '54 Volkswagen when young, later a tired 180 which my father tried to restore on weekends. That didn't work out.
Fast forward to 1974 and new 240D. Smooth, lots of vacuum feel especially in deceleration. Then a used 61 220sb-the most comfortable car I have ever driven especially at cruising speed, a couple of vintage diesels, 74+75 bought in the 90's and now my serious restoration, the 280. I think I may have been making up for the 180 fiasco. But through it all there is one constant and that remains the pocket feel I get when the sum of the parts rolling down the road somehow makes for an over the road majic only experienced by those who have experienced it. I can't explain it beyond that and it is what I am striving for with this current effort.
Turner

As good as Mercedes suspension feels, there is NO suspension to equal the hydropneumatic suspension of a Citroen DS.
You are truly floating on a cloud (of nitrogen gas)
Ask anyone who's owned one.

S

__________________
Strelnik
Invest in America: Buy a Congressman!

1950 170SD
1951 Citroen 11BN
1953 Citroen 11BNF limo
1953 220a project
1959 180D
1960 190D
1960 Borgward Isabella TS 2dr
1983 240D daily driver
1983 380SL
1990 350SDL daily driver alt
3 x Citroen DS21M, down from 5
3 x Citroen 2CV, down from 6

Is that why French desserts are so light and fluffy?
I have never ridden in nor driven a Citroen. I will attempt to rectify this.
Turner

Frankly I love it when someone comes up and says "what's that". Owned a few of those. Nothing drives and feels like an old car, not a warn out car, but, and old car. If you want true reliability, comfort, and a killer sound system you may as well get a Honda.

I like spending my weekends/free time looking for that elusive piece that is just a little "nicer" than what's there now.That slightly dented chrome trim,or damaged piece of interior wood...Maybe as I do my "rounds" of the various wrecking yards I'll be able to find it.
I try and think about all the human hands that touched these vehicles over the years.Newer cars are assembled by "robots".That lack of human energy is what makes newer vehicles more reliable perhaps,but exponentially more dull.
I think also the feel comes from the combination of suspension and TIRE TECHNOLOGY! My R107 runs on 14" 70 ratio tires.Even modern econo-boxes ride on 15-16" low profile rubber.Modern street tires are far superior to even the race tire technology of 20-30 years ago.

That's true, I hadn't even thought of section height. Bias ply vs radial aside, the finny's got 185/80/13 tires on it. That's a lot of air between the car and the road! As strelnik pointed out, nothing beats floating on a gas. I wonder what it'd be like to put the finny's wheels on my wife's 2005 saab

The "goddess" is a fascinating car, one of the few that intrigues me more than old mercedes. The parts and costs are frightening to me personally though, not to mention the rarity in the US. I saw one in good driver condition toodling around Montreal a few weekends ago driven by a young woman in her 20's.

Even more strangely, yesterday I passed a Citroen Traction Avant on I-93 north (better known as the big-dig) working it's heart out attempting to go up the hill over the Zakim bridge. Quite a sight, I'm not sure that type of car has EVER been on that particular road, hopefully he'll become a regular :-)

__________________
___
/<>/>/>
1967 230S automatic
Boston, MA

the smell of rat pee?

__________________
With best regards

Al

FEEL, Al, FEEL, not smell!

Now I'd agree with the rodent theory if you're thinking of that hollow, crunchy feeling you get when you sit on the space in the horsehair where the pack rat has excavated a cavity and secreted all its ill gotten treasure!

I think I have too many cars in my collection that spent too much time sitting in a field.

__________________
With best regards

Al

Let's not forget the design of a vintage car -- the unique, sometimes delicate beauty of the way the interior and exterior has been designed, the interesting details that often seem almost sculptural, and the awesome feeling of driving something that hasn't been wind tunnel-tested to death until it looks like a damn jelly bean.

I'd rather gaze upon the front quarter panel of a vintage Benz that stare at 99% of the modern cars on the road today. Unless, of course, the car is a CL550.