i know you people (some people) swear by the gp9700 but the dealer i was talking to for tires/wheels is using a machine called CEMB.is anyone familiar with this machine and is it any good?

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'95 s500 (bought for wife but can't bear to share!!!) 125kms
'92 legend 180kms
'88 tbirdturbo(fantastic car-only regular maint.)120kms
'87 mustang gt(gone)
'86 tbirdturbo(gone)
'85 mustang gt(gone-but not forgotten)

I don't recognize that brand, but can tell you from my last experience, as far as I'm concerned, you can take your GSP 9700, and stick it where the sun don't shine!!
After 4 attempts, by various monkeys trying to operate an out of calibration GSP 9700, I ended up at a real experts place, that managed to balance my wheels to perfection, using a machine that is 20 years old.
Give your man a try, and see for yourself that it is possible to do as good, or a better job, without the GSP 9700.

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2007 C 230 Sport.

I responded to this same question in another forum, but I find it necessary to respond to Manny's blast of the 9700.

Manny, you discovered the key in the end with the competent operator with an old machine. I think you're pointing the blame at the wrong people. The 9700 in and of itself is a fabulous piece of equipment. Just like any other tool or piece of equipment, it requires a competent person with the right attitude using it.

As you describe these people, I am quite convinced that they would have given you the same results regardless of what wheel balancer they were using. If they are not going to keep their equipment properly calibrated, they are doomed to failure anyway. As the old saying goes, "it's a poor workman that blames his tools."

I too have a very old computer spin balancer, and if I do say so myself, I get EXCELLENT results with it. Give me a competent operator with a "get it done right" attitude every time.

As I said in the other response, the 9700 is for problem situations. For 95% or more of the balancing jobs, a properly calibrated computer spin balancer of most any brand will get the job done right as long as:

The operator has an IQ in excess of 70

The operator uses Dynamic mode and weights inside and outside

(Most important) the operator is determined to do the job right

Have a great day,
PS It is VERY simple to test the calibration of ANY wheel balancer. Simply balance the wheel so that the balancer says that it is balanced. THEN put a hevy weight somewhere on the wheel and check balance again. The machine should tell you to place the same amount of weight opposite to the location of that weight. Very simple, again requiring an IQ of 70 or greater. LB

The Hunter GSP9700 is more than just a tire/wheel balancer ... it's a vibration eliminator!

Hunter GSP9700


Check out the white paper on this machine ... interesting article.

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1992 500E (Daily Driver)
2004 Porsche RUF 955 Dakara 550

Larry

I am 100 % with you on your comments & viewpoints.
What I'm saying is simply this, when you walk into a garage that proudly displays a 9700, do not take for granted that you will get a " true " wheel balance.
The presence of the equipment does not make that a given, when you have people with an IQ of just below room temperature operating it.
I do remember how frustrating and expensive it was, to have my newly aquired Michelin Pilot Sport tires ( we're talking some pretty hefty coin here ), finally balanced by somebody in the " back woods", with an old machine.
Maybe Hunter shouldn't sell these machines to incompetent dicks.
You have a nice day as well.

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2007 C 230 Sport.

Norman Anthony

I now pretty much everything there is to know about the 9700.
It can do anything & everything...........except eliminate the Einstein operating it !

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2007 C 230 Sport.

As a person who is in the business of balancing jet engines, I wish to add one other point to Larry's statements. Larry is correct in the procedure of how to check the balancing equipment for calibration. However, there is one additional check that should always be made to determine if the wheel is truly in balance when the operator has completed the task:

Take the wheel off the machine, turn it 180 degrees, and remount it onto the machine. Read the unbalance again. If the wheel remains at or very close to the original readings, the procedure is a success.

Many perfectly calibrated machines result in a poorly balanced tire because the tools used to mount the tire are out of balance, or the spindle of the machine itself is out of balance, or the mounting center is not concentric with the spindle bearings of the machine.

Brian,

Yes that's one of the things that I do when I "suspect" my machine of wrong doing.

You know how it is, you get a feel for machinery, and seem to instinctively know when something seems to be wrong. Any time I put the weights where the machine says to put them, and then when I spin it again it is not zeroed, or very close to zero I begin to investigate. This is not the only condition that will cause me to investigate. There are other things that make me suspicious.

Have a great day,

Larry,

You can therefore imagine the average slob who takes his tires in to be balanced by a "technician" who barely knows where the start button is on the machine.

I'm fairly convinced that more than 50% of the time, the customer pays for something he does not get.

How about 75 % of the time......in my case anyway.
Funny thing, the second place I took my wheels to was the local Ford dealer.
Service manager told me, they HAD TO buy the GSP 9700, because it is the only machine capable of balancing wheels on the new Lincolns ( with supposedly super-sensitive suspension/steering ).
Guess what, my M-B suspension/steering must be super,super,super-sensitive, because they completely missed the mark, and the vibration continued.

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2007 C 230 Sport.

I think that the Ford dealer has a warped view of what the 9700 is all about. I don't believe that there is any one car that has a wheel/tire combination that can't be balanced any other way. In MOST cases, a competent operator, on an average computer balancer in proper repair, can balance most wheels/tires.

Where the 9700 comes in is when you have a tire with excessive road force variation, in other words, a stiff spot. Do the tires that they put on those Lincolns all have stiff spots? I don't THINK so.

The 9700, with a competent operator, should be where you go when normal balancing leaves you with problems.

To me, your Lincoln dealer proved to you how little that they understand about tire vibration problems and about the 9700.

At one point I gave serious consideration to opening a Vibration Specialty shop. If I were in a populated, affluent area I believe that I could make a go of it. Most vibration problems are tire related, most of those will straighten out with a PROPER balance. Of the ones that won't, the 9700 would usually straighten them out.

Of the ones that were not tire related, I think you would know when you first drove the car if vibration troubleshooting is what you were doing all the time. Once it is learned that the problem is NOT tire/wheel related that's when it gets difficult, but even if you don't charge any money for those rare cases, I think you would still make money if it were marketed and priced correctly and everyone would be happy.

Just a thought.

You could make a go of it, Larry, if the vibration specialty shop specialized in all types of vibration issues, not just the vibration on automobile tires. The vibration issues on auto tires, while troublesome to the owners, cannot produce enough income to warrant the time and the investment. The knowledge and the equipment required to open a proper shop to deal with vibration issues across a multitude of products is substantial. Most of the people in the business have a shop that performs balancing of all kinds of industrial products and equipment, and, they do vibration troubleshooting of fixed industrial equipment as a sideline. None of them balance automobile tires for $15.00 a crack when they typically earn $100, or more, per hour.

My own business is dedicated to balancing of jet engines. However, due to the size of the things, I go to them, rather than them coming to me.

Larry

The irony of that particular experience is the HUGE banner they fly at the front of their dealership titled " RIDE CONTROL CENTRE " !
This may even have been supplied by Hunter, when they purchased the machine.

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2007 C 230 Sport.

Brian,

No I would not do only tires, but I don't think that the investment in machinery would be huge. I would indeed have a 9700, but my idea was to charge a minimum fee and if I could not help them, refund the fee. Since a high percentage of the vibration would be cured by proper wheel balance, that would probably give me enough money to get by on. Then in the case of other than tire/wheel situations, the vast majority would be driveshaft related, or possibly front end related that would generate other repair business.

The variable in the equation is that once you get the one that is not cured by tire/wheel correction or maybe driveshaft, then it often gets mysterious.

In addition I have a design in my head for interfacing some piezo electric sensors to a laptop for frequency and waveform measurement. By putting the piezo electric sensors (basically microphones) on suction cups or otherwise attaching them as needed, you should be able to locate vibrations more easily. More importantly, by seeing the frequency you can quickly determine if this is at wheel speed, driveshaft speed and then sensor location should help in locating the source.

Do you use anything like this in your work?

Manny,

Hunter has a program that mostly involves training that is called "Rolling Smooth" so I don't think that is their banner. Ride Control Center sounds more like something that came from a shock absorber manufacturer. Shocks are quick money for these shops.

Have a great day,

Larry,

With the business restricted to balancing tires and drive shafts, I am not confident of sufficient revenue. People who balance tires do so as an adjunct to selling and installing tires. People who balance drive shafts do so as an adjunct of repairing and modifying drive shafts. Neither attempts to do it as a specialty.
If you attempt this as a specialty, you will only get the folks who have the "big problem" that the tire shop, or drive shaft shop, cannot solve. You might spend a considerable amount of time trying to resolve that problem. However, the typical retail customer wants to get out of there for less than $75.00. I just do not think it will be lucrative.

I typically do not use the Piezo pickups in what I do because I normally balance the jet engine components on dedicated balancing machines designed strictly for that task. They have the Piezo pickups built right into the machine. However, the type of equipment that you spoke of, where Piezo pickups are connected to a laptop, or other suitable data processing device, are readily available by at least 10 different manufacturers. My old company sells a portable unit for about $7K or so. There are plenty of others for more than, and less than this amount. They are quite helpful to determine the vibration frequency and eliminate things that are not causing the problem. Many facilities use these units for on condition monitoring. Every month a technician hooks up the unit to a machine (pump, blower, compressor, etc.) and takes readings. With a proper history, the bearing condition can be monitored over time and the precise time to change the bearings can be determined well before a failure occurs. Now that can become a lucrative business. You take a portable unit, go around to 5 different machines in one day, take a set of readings and you are out of there. You typically would get about $100. for each set of readings. The readings include a report on the condition of the piece of equipment. You can determine the condition after you have checked a given device about four times. Then you have a data base to work with. Much better business plan than the tire balancing shop