Originally Posted by kip Foss

We lost Viet Nam because we were trying to fight an army of dedicated men who were fighting for their country and had the fire of patriotism in their bellies. While our allies were as corrupt and as spineless as they come. I was in the US embassy on May 1, 1975 when Saigon fell. To see the 'brave' government solders deserting their posts, stealing helicopters to fly their families out to the ships while leaving others to fend for themselves is a little disheartening to say the least.

In 1954 after the fall of Dien Pien Pho the French warned the US against getting involved in Viet Nam, but the US felt that they could show those 'frogs' how to fight a war. Boy, we really showed the world how the US could fight a war. The same way we showed those Somalians who was boss.

We lost nearly 69k men and women, wounded nearly a million, killed over a million Viet Namese, wounded about 3 million, absolutely destroyed Viet Nam, divided the US, sent back to the States hundreds of thousands of vets that never recovered and never became productive members of society, and for what?? We made Brown and Root, Halliburton, Bechtal, Kellogg, Trammel Crow, Boing, Lockeed, Bell, etc., etc. billions of dollers richer and for what?? What in God's good name did this country get out of Viet Nam?? The only thing we have ever gotten out of Viet Nam is cheap tennis shoes.

All the above is pretty much what we are going to get out of Iraq. Perhaps not to the scale of Viet Nam but certainly the defeat will be just as humiliating and just as costly. Bush has created a national debt that will take generations to pay off. Say what you want to about Clinton's morals but at least he had the balls and brains to pay off the 4 billion dollar debt that Reagan and Bush I ran up and then had the courtesy to leave this country with a half a billion dollar surplus.


Bush went into Iraq for political and economic reasons only. How many Iraqis were involved in 911? The answer comes back, "None". How many WMD's did we find-None. So if there were no Iraqis in 911, no WMD's and Iraq was not a terrorist training ground (remember, Saddam ran Bin Laden out of Iraq in 1993 when he tried to set up training camps there) why did Bush declare war on Iraq? Mostly because no wartime president has ever failed to be reelected. And maybe, just maybe it could be for the oil.

If we were so anxious to bring democracy to Iraq why didn't we help out in Dafar where 2.4 million have been killed in the last 10 years, or in Ruwanda where a million were killed, or in the Congo there they lost over 800k? The answer is OIL. We need it and they don't have it.

This administration and the right wing can use terms like, "freedom, democracy, liberty, anti-terrorism, blah, blah, and wave the flag all they want but it is not going to change the fact that the US is in Iraq for no other reason than the whims of a deluded egotist. He tries to make 'staying the course' sound like some sort of high idealism, but, when in fact, is it is just the failed policy of a cabal of men who never had a very good plan to start out with. And now they want you, me and all out children to pay the price. Thanks, but no thanks.