Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry edwards
I think one of the most important points of the Augustinian and Original Sin tradition in both Catholicism and Protestantism is that it denies that the individual can ultimately do any good independent of a social institution. Everyone has to rely upon the grace of God in order to do anything good, and this grace comes thru the Church.
The individual is subservient to the larger institution in this view, as opposed to the larger institution being subject to the will of the individual. It is fundamentally an anti-democratic view of the world.
If Pelagius had won the battle with Augustine the history of democracy in the West might have been different.
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I can't speak for all Christian religions. But those few churches with which I have some familiarity do not assert that grace comes from any church (which I here define as a man-made institution ordained by God). Quite the opposite, to say that God's grace comes from a church is blasphemy to the church-goers that I know.
For example, Quakers don't believe as you assert, concerning grace through a church. They are the ultimate inconoclasts, which ironically, it's own icon of their view.
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tarbe, I believe that the historical argument between Calvinists and non-Calvinists is not as you proffered. If I remember correctly, Calvin & especially John Knox asserted that God made everything, past, present and future, else he could not be defined as Almighty and Omniscient. If God knew what was going to happen before you did it then that means that God did not give the individual a true choice, free will is an illusion of our time-dependency.
B