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Old 06-11-2007, 06:33 PM
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dpetryk dpetryk is offline
Electrons can do anything
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Houston, Texas
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PAG was developed for 134a but it has several advantages over the old mineral based oils that have been used for decades with R12. I know a shop that uses it exclusively because it reduces customer returns to almost nothing. Prior to that he was using mineral oil and had the "usual" number of returns. This guy has been in the business over 30 years. I respect his opinion. I learned about using PAG instead of mineral in a A/C service workshop I took as part of a continuing education course in refrigeration systems. I met a lot of people in the business of automotive A/C repair at the school.

Quote:
For the last 15 years I've only read that PAG and R-12 are not compatible.
The incompatibility exists between the two lubricants not between the lubricant and the refrigerant. PAG is compatible with either refrigerant. The incompatibility arises when there is a residual amount of mineral oil still in the system and you add PAG. Now you are in for trouble. If you flush clean and use only PAG you are better off than using mineral. Don't put PAG into a system that has not been completely flushed clean of all traces of mineral oil.

Quote:
The incompatibility between the aforementioned mineral oil lubricants also causes problems when introducing R-134a refrigerant/lubricant formulation into air conditioners or refrigerators, particularly automotive air conditioners, which already contain R-12 refrigerant/mineral oil formulations. This is because residual amounts of mineral oil and refrigerant typically remain in the system when changing an existing system from R-12 to R-134a. Thus, the incompatibility between the residual R-12 mineral oil formulation and the newly-introduced R-134 a/lubricant will be troublesome. Consequently, it would be highly desirable to be able to eliminate such incompatibility when retrofitting an existing R-12 system with R-134a.
My cars use the Denso 10p series and the recommended viscosity is 46. I have done 3 of my 5 cars and the oldest one is running for 6 years now. I live in Houston - it gets a lot of use. No problems or noise. I don't know what compressor you have but here is a table of recommended viscosity for various compressors.

The following is a list of recommended lubricants for compressor applications:

Behr/Bosch rotary compressors - Ester 100
Behr/Bosch piston compressors - PAG 46
Calsonic V5 - PAG 150
Calsonic V6 - PAG 46
Chrysler RV2 - Ester 100
Chrysler C171, A590 & 6C17 - PAG 46
Diesel/Kiki (Zexel) DKS, DKV & DCW - PAG 46
Ford FS6, FX15, FS10, 10P & 10PA - PAG 46
GM A6, R4, DA6, HR6, HT, V5 & V7 - PAG 150
GM V5 retrofit - PAG/FLR-118
Hitachi (all) - PAG 46
Keihin (all) - PAG 46
Matsu****a (all) - Ester 100
Mitsubishi FX80 - PAG 100
Mitsubishi FX105 - PAG 46
Nihon (all) - Ester 100
Nippondenso 6P, 10P, 10PA, 10P08E - PAG 46
Nippondenso SP127, SP134 & 6E171 - PAG 46
Nippondenso TV series - PAG 125
Panasonic (all) - PAG 46
Sanden SD500 & SD700 - PAG 100
Sanden SD710, SDB, TV & TRS - PAG 46
Seik-Seiki (all) - Ester 100
York/Tecumseh - PAG 46

Quote:
The Idemitsu Lubricants America Corporation Daphne Hermetic Polyalkylene Glycol (PAG) Series are synthetic lubricants uniquely formulated to provide unsurpassed lubricity, wear protection, and proper miscibility with ozone-friendly refrigerants. This formulation has been engineered to provide additional protection for wobble, rotary vane, swash plate, and scroll type automotive compressor and air conditioning systems where CFC (R-12) and HFC (R134a) refrigerants are used.
Compatibility statements;

http://www.pag-idemitsu-usa.com/page_200.htm
http://www.pag-idemitsu-usa.com/page_209.htm

A few other sites where information is more difficult to find;

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5372737-description.html


Try it - you will like it.
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Last edited by dpetryk; 06-11-2007 at 07:31 PM.
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