Quote:
Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB
Re-read Genesis.
No, it is VERY relevant. I like knowing that I hold the key to my own salvation.
Whether I am saved or not, is entirely up to me. I like that, because I like to take responsibility for my actions. If I end up in hell, it is no one's fault but my own--and I will blame no one.
I rather like the concept of freewill. I don't want anyone choosing for me. Right or wrong it is my decision. I really like that.
Where do you get that he is blaming us? What is your evidence for that.
He is not blaming anyone. He is just saying, these are the rules. You can play by them or not, it is entirely up to you.
I am a prosecutor and I hope to some day become a judge. Everyday in court I hear criminals blame everyone BUT themselves for their cirmes. "Society made me do it" or "The law made me do it" or "It is my parents fault" (and the one I really hate) "She (the rape victim) made me do it."
I tis always everyone else's fault. We can all chose to lead a sinful life or a good life. The choice is ours. Or, as the Gladiator said "What we do in this life follows us into eternity."
Interesting concept, could you give me an example of a situation where your child would do something wrong through a fault of your own. And please, refer to the actions of an adult child, since (almost by definition) children don't know what they are doing.
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Your concept of free will is a concept held by a modern lawyer in a democratic society. It is not the concept of free will associated with orthodox views of original sin and human freedom. For Augustine and other very influential Church Fathers, free will simply meant that you got to think about choices in your own head, but you couldn't choose anything other than what God had predetermined that you would do. In other words, what you complain about in regards to criminals blaming their actions on other people or society is precisely what early Christians thought was going on. They said God was causing everything. They still thought we were responsible because we got to think about alternative choices, even though the possibilities which God had not pre-determined were not possible. I agree with your modern view. A person has to have real choices in order to be held responsible. By
'real' I mean 'could have done differently than what he or she did". The orthodox idea of original sin completely rejects this view of human freedom. Since we are all born in sin, none of us has any real ability to do good. Under those circumstances, I believe it is entirely reasonable to blame God for what happened. This is exactly, why your original statement of how salvation occurred is not orthodox. I think you wrote, 'Thru Faith by Grace", the orthodox view is 'By Grace thru Faith'. It is written this way by orthodox Christian theologians because they hold that no person can have faith until God gives them grace.
To put it impolitely, you, like me, are a Pelagian heretic.