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LUVMBDiesels · #8 11-03-2008, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B.

No, there has been NO "victory". Sorry. The best we have to hope for is a really well planned withdrawal that allows the Iraqi people to maintain a modicum of stability.

I fully understand what "victory" means. I know what "defeat" means. Iraq is neither. It is in that big gray area of "draw". nobody won, nobody lost [well, except for half a million Iraqi people and the families of all the American and Coalition troops who were killed or wounded].

Since we had a fully undefined mission, without an endgame, the very concept of "victory" is impossible. Only a rationalization of which degree of "draw" will allow folks to walk away with their heads held high. And I don't mean the troops, I mean the leadership. The troops did EVERYTHING asked of them. They can hold their heads up with honor. They did their jobs. Their leaders did not.

I don't know Jim, If we leave Iraq in the hands of a stable westward leaning democracy I would say that was a victory. If we pull out and leave them unstable and they fall into a cycle of never ending civil wars like Sudan but remain out of the world scene -- that would be a draw. If they become an Iranian client state and a launching pad for attacks on the West then we have lost.

I do agree that our political leadership has been pitiful on both sides of the aisle and that our troops have done whatever was asked of them with honor and pride. Our military has shown that the stigma of Vietnam and the Carter years is fully gone and that they are the baddest MF-ers on the planet.
They have also shown that the idea of the compassionate American soldier is alive and well. I read the stories on Sprit of America.com and I am always amazed at how much our men and women really care about the Iraqi and Afghani people. This was NOT a brutal occupation force (like the Wehrmacht in France in 1941) but a true liberation force.