"The issue is not whether the CIA obtained information, but whether it was reliable, whether it was lawful, and whether the CIA could have obtained the same information and perhaps more through the use of lawful means," said Jameel Jaffer, an American Civil Liberties Union attorney who pressed the lawsuit which triggered release of the legal memos.

Get the point? If the CIA wants to torture people, well dude, right now, and during the time George Bush was president, torturing people was AGAINST THE LAW. If torture works as you state, then the CIA or whomever needs to get a law passed that allows them to use it. I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is a Hitlerite regime which disregards the law and does whatever it wants, using the security of the state as it's excuse. It is a road to fascism, and I want no part of it. In fact, in the post 9-11 environment, Bush could have easily used legal means to get the right to do this. Instead he choose the route of dictators: Executive fiat.