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Old 04-05-2013, 04:14 PM
martureo martureo is online now
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: DC Metro/Maryland
Posts: 15,936
I do not think I need to introduce myself as an orthodox Bible believer.

This is one of those issues that gives me plenty of incidents where I feel the need to slap my palm to my head. The verse in question is often abused and often misunderstood as permission or even commanding me to abuse or subjugate their wives "under their thumb".

I'm sure you didn't mean for this to be a theological thread, but I'll quickly lay out my position along with the aforementioned verses.

Quote:
be filled with the Spirit, addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart, giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
(Ephesians 5:18b-32 ESV)

Quote:
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust. For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly. For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God. For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps. He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, when they see your respectful and pure conduct. Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious. For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. And you are her children, if you do good and do not fear anything that is frightening.

Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.
(1 Peter 2:13-3:7 ESV)

The bolded portions are usually quoted without any respect to the context surrounding them.

I am the head of the household in my house. My wife knows this and agrees, but let me explain what I mean.

You might be familiar with the traditional Anglican marriage vows where the bride says "for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to obey/submit". The traditional vow has only the bride say "submit" and the groom says "cherish".

But I, as a student of the Word, insisted that both of us say "submit".

My wife and I submit to each other, but when there is an impasse, I have the final call. That is, that I have the final vote as to whether I will submit to her will or she will submit to mine. We are equals before God, and submit to each other. But as the head I have the final call in all things, which doesn't necessarily mean I have my will be done in all things.
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