Originally Posted by barry12345

Tariffs are intended to protect domestic market production from unfair competition. North America no longer manufactures the vast bulk of what we import from China. I saw a double whammy where the tariff will flow to the federal treasury.

Plus the cost to importers will rise. This part would not normally be a major issue. Other than if you examine what retailers are taking as a markup it becomes very concerning.

For example I priced a simple syphon pump yesterday at Walmart's on line shopping. It was 25.00 and really not worth it for a simple manual pump and hose. It is 1.69 including delivery from China to me in single quantities. So Walmart probably pays about .60 cents in quantities.

We rightfully complain about the poor quality of Chinese made aftermarket parts. The manufacturers are getting almost nothing there for producing them. If the north American suppliers where not so greedy with markups they could buy much better products to resell.

As another example . A knock sensor was close to 200.00 at the auto chain stores. That I believe are buying each other up now but leaving the chain names unchanged. Why not when I pay 12.00 for the same sensor delivered from China. Where they have to be paying less than half. I think we will see a real 25 percent retail north American cost increase on those parts. The almost 200.00 sensor will become almost 250.00.

The last example is I am buying 5 digital multimeters from China right now for about the equivelant of 5.00 American each delivered. The Chinese retailer is still making some margin. A substantial increase in quality by a Chinese firm that has been in the business a long time with only a nominal price increase if any. Reviews on it where remarkably good for the price. We have a Canadian chain that sold very good digital meters for the price. They are no longer selling them but have substituted far poorer models at even higher prices. The old ones they had were built specifically for them.

So as I see the scenario that may be unfolding. China has no reason to care what their merchandise costs American consumers. That the American consumer has to pay a twenty five percent purchase tax in an increase in the cost of Chinese merchandise at the north America governments hands is not a real issue for them. The new taxation and the new retail costs to come are the end point of the American administrations exercise. This is a tax remember not a tariff in reality.

A possible totally flawed plan to increase the federal revenue to cover a period of the most irresponsible financial defict America may have ever seen. On the backs of the population. Trump warned the Chinese not to increase their respective tariffs thinking he could prevail with his new taxation plan. It has failed as China has just started to slap on tariffs of their own. Pushing this whole senario may bring on a recession in America. He was over the edge to think he was going to get away with what he thought anyways.

Trump quoted his desire to get industry really going again in America.

As industry is automating even in China today. There is no reason that it could not occur. Other than it seems more important to spend the money required on things like the military adventures. Where there really is no physical threat to America. Actually the American taxpayer is responsible for so much debt enacted on their behalf by many administrations it is pathetic.

Keeping the illusion alive that jobs are the important factor in a modern society. Belongs in another age. Value added is where the support of the society is today.

The richer capitalists are keeping the modernization well at bay. .The largest employer of bodies in America today is either the fast food business or the government itself. Government jobs are never in the value added sphere.

China is mass producing engineers at historically levels currently. North America does not even have free higher education to improve the future. An explanation of the failure of the north American industrial structure and many others is well overdue by the present and past administrations.

Why did we export the semi conductor business pretty much wholesale? For the greed of the few. It was a needed component of the future and known at the time. It is not labor intensive. I was only made aware of this when attempting to order some high tech chips. National semiconductors told me they produced them in China now. Same with texas instruments semi conductors.

I thought at the time long enough ago now. How could a country be this stupid. Then I thought massive greed was the answer of only a few. The public was also never informed that for all practical purposes these are not subsidiary operations in China. A condition of moving there besides the financial up front ones was. You have to give half the operation to the Chinese government in the move. So this was a legitimate technology transfer in all cases.

In a way most the evidence is the capitalistic system has failed to meet the needs of the population. They at best are only being met today with massive debt loading. The limits required to carry the capitalistic system into the future have either been ignored, laws eliminated that where in reality some controls, the use of propaganda to cover unpleasant realities, or the ban of informing the population properly about the true state of things.

As a serious example. The cause of the 2008 issue was the packaging of questionable debts and selling them at a discount across the counter with corrupt worth evaluations. They knew they were bad but indicated otherwise.

This business rather than being cleaned up is today far larger than ever before. The across the counter derivative sales currently put the whole countries financial situation at risk. Yet not a word about it is in the media. Personally I suspect money has gone digital. There is not enough of the real thing out there to legitimize the digital component. That is why when dealing with our banks they want to hold on to the real dollars.

They suspect if not know there is a liquidity problem brewing. I still have not got an answer. As to why the returns of their articles of deposit leaped five hundred percent around last Christmas. This buy in law may be used to cover the liquidity problem to some degree as they do not have to cough up real money. That they no longer have and their debt holdings values are declining in the ever increasing default rates..

In 2008 when the demand rose to cash in paper instruments the money to do so was not available. So the government did the bailout. It came so close to shutting down the system. There should have been a law immediately established.

An institution that takes on the debt must directly retain dealing with it. Other than selling marginal debt that they are much better aware that it has little real value as packages. Usually by lying or manipulation or misrepresentation to just get it off the books.

I have often wondered and have no answer as to why there was no money hardly at all in active circulation during the depression of the 1930s. Every thing was attempted to get it circulating again. With some results. At the same time that was starting to fail. Then the second world war got it going again. Yet how did all the missing money show up again? I mean there were years there that a lot of people had basically no money. Where was it? Or did trillionairs exist even back then?

This upcoming era may be a period of ever increasing hidden taxes in north America for the majority. With no actual benefits to those saddled with them. A sizable spike in retail prices may also be enabled by the current administration. My guess if I accept the current economy is doing well. It only applies to the superficial component of it. It is probably existing on quicksand. The Chinese issue otherwise could have been tackled differently with fewer potential issues. .

There is no law at re establishing production by barring certain catagories of imports. Many countries do this. In north America it is a requirement to aid in the redistribution of wealth. We cannot go on just buying everything and doing no real value added production ourselves. If a company wants to leave and they are. Just nationalize them or ban importation of what the produce under their new partial ownership in China.

China pays dearly for them to relocate there. In the longer term picture it has proven cheap for China. We think far too short term. Attempting to stamp out a series of fires all the time . Removes any focus required to get things done. Letting a political system evolve that is constantly engaged in far too many other functions that really running America. Speaks volumes in itself. Just look how great they are in their attempts to run other countries has worked out.

Polarizing a population either intentionally or otherwise might have been very counterproductive. Neither party is willing to take turns anymore. So it is a constant dogfight. I have many issues where north America is really heading for our children and grandchildren. We do not seem to have any longer range planning in place. I am for the capitalistic system under reasonable rules that are not applied. Yet have existed over time.