Reporting back to HQ...Victory is mine, the 5 sided enemy,"Allen"has been vanquished on 2 fronts. First I borrowed a 425 ft/lbs super impact wrench, NO DICE, then as a last resort tried wolfgangs "breaker bar and big hammer" approach. I not only got the one on the donner car (allen #1) but Allen # 2 on my Euro car that will receive the "new" dash. This is a good thing to know and thanks All for the help. I am sure I would have bagged it had not so many folks jumped in with ideas. I am still gona see if lowering the column would have done it and I will post the results if anyone is interested. Thanks again Steve