Not on used motor oil, they don't. The bearings might be ok but what about your IP and injectors? Also, assuming there is some oil in the bore that has metal stuff, now you are introducing more metal stuff to the cylinders than there already is.

Yes but do you have a centrifuge on your car? If you could be sure to get all the metal out, I'd go for it.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Yeah DOLT I was just thinking of this about an hour ago when it hit me MANY modern engines are made of aluminum and magnets do not work on aluminum :-(

Lead is definitely magnetic not sure about copper either way the percentage of copper is probably incredibly low ie not worried about it

aluminum I am worried about.

I am not worried about the engine at all I can not hurt this thing anymore than it already is I AM however worried about the other stuff you guys mentioned injectors pumps etc.. that stuff would probably get a wee upset at too much metal floating around in the fuel.

I am pretty confident I can filter it. Hit it with a magnet overnight then run it through multiple progressive filters etc.. anything small enough to get through the filters if done properly is also likely small enough not to bother the engine.

And another dolt on the process like vegatable oil. Duh gas and diesel are nothing more than refined oil.

That does make me curious what IS the difference between vegatable oil IE why can it be processed in such a way to use directly as diesel fuel but not motor oil ? IE when you make biodiesal out of WVO what ARE you making exactly. IE I know how to do it but "what" is the chemical atomic result of this process ie what is the fluid you get ?

I guess I partially know already but am unsure. The main point of processing wvo is to get rid of the water and glycerin right ? oil would not have this. So if I am thinking properly your not actually converting WVO to diesel of any sort your just removing the chemicals from it that make it harder for an engine to process ? ie what you have left is still just WVO but without the glycerin ? and that just happens to be burnable in a diesel engine ?

Will oil and Fuel mix homogeneously ? or will they separate if they sit ? ie would adding say a gallon of diesel per 10 gallons of used oil (properly filtered and processed) be enough to thin it for direct burning? or would I have to use an SVO type rig to preheat it etc.. ?

Also still no word on the safety issue. Is this more hazardous than diesel fuel in anyway to me ? ie if I put a gallon of diesel and a gallon of used processed motor oil which is more dangerous ? I am assuming (hoping) that used motor oil is no more dangerous than new motor oil ?

I would also run injector cleaner in every tank. This might help to alleviate any problems of build up from the motor oil. Either way I would save so much money on fuel that this little bit of cleaner in each tank would not effect the cost savings much at all. (I buy it by the gallon so my per use cost is less than the cost of a gallon of diesel and I would be saving 18 gallons per tank if this works out. This stuff would also help with any potential smoking (it reduces smoking as well)

Hell even if the car only lasted 2 years the savings in fuel alone would buy me several more cars if need be :-) (I burn 12-18 gallons of diesel a week) sometimes a tank a week (lots of driving my trip to work alone is 54 miles each way) so in a year figuring 15 gallons a week thats $2025 a year in fuel savings I paid $1200 for the car and have a second one that I got for $400 but it needs a bit of work but mostly cosmetic/brake work the drivetrain is in better shape than the one I drive daily)

I would prefer not to kill my car though as I have a bit of an attachment to it :-)

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

go for it... and keep us posted!

__________________
82' 300SD

If I had access to alot of waste oil I would use a centrifuge to purify the oil for use. For a few gallons at a time it's not worth it.

There is alot of heavy metal and contaminants in old oil. Without a method of removing the metals it would be harmful to you and the environment.

Even with removal, you would have to have a "safe" place to dispose of the metals and contaminants when your done filtering and "burning" the fuel oil.

Just the thought of metal particles grinding inside my IP and injectors make me cringe.

That's got to be the worst idea I've ever heard. Sounds like something Brian (LC) would recommend.

__________________
-justin

1987 300TD, 1987 300TD
2008 R32, 2000 Passat Wagon

I might be able to rig up a centrifuge. I can trade speed for time ie make it run slower (and much safer) and just wait longer.

Is there a way for me to TEST a batch to make sure it is safe for my engine IE take a sample and test it for metal particulate matter?

First I am assuming I can GET a ready supply of the stuff (I will find out tomorrow) will stop by the local oil change shop and just ask. See what happens.

Is waste oil more flammable than new motor oil ? ie is it more dangerous to me personally in handling etc.. ?

Suggestions on tests ? I figure a pair of buckets balanced and gently spun with magnets on the bottom. Run that for a day or so run off the cleaner oil and then run it through some filters. I might even eventually if this works rig up a solar rig to spin the oil so I don't waste any E making the stuff.

Question is how do I test for the presence of metals in the result ? my Primary concern is aluminum since that is non magnetic. how do you test for aluminum ?

I wonder how electrically conductive oil is and if the metal particles are enough to make it conductive. I might be able to use resistance or conductivity to determine metal content.??

As I said it seems like a great idea but not at the cost of wrecking my car :-) the issue is can I work out a solution to its problems.

Isn't the purpose of running of alternative fuels to pollute less? Why would you attempt to go through all this trouble just to use dirty old oil? It probably pollutes more than petroD.

Won't it still need to be heated just like VO? Won't you need a two-tank system? So in addition to all the work you have to do in order to run VO (which is usually free or quite cheap), you have to invent some crazy centrifuge system to pull out metal particles. Sounds like a great idea.

__________________
-justin

1987 300TD, 1987 300TD
2008 R32, 2000 Passat Wagon

well for me the environmental angle is a bonus not a primary reason. I went diesel for several reasons namely Lower cost per mile (better economy) and much longer lasting engines. A secondary benefit is that I might be able to play around with biodiesel.

My carbon footprint in the bigger picture is not relevant. Also bio fuels are a non starter they simply can not replace petro. there is not enough arable land on earth to make enough to meet our needs.

What interests me in alternative fuel is the COST savings. once you invest in the rig you can make bioD for around 55cents a gallon. THAT is my interest.

burning oil in my engine is no worse (and in fact probably better) that what there going to do with it. (around here people use it in heaters for there homes and businesses and what they can not use they pay to have taken away)

If I can get it for free and process it myself that is better than 55 cents a gallon AND no $4000 rig to purchase to do the processing :-) magnets are $80 a pop and maybe $200 for the centrifuge parts probably less if I scavenge for them. An old electric kiddy car motor might work and I have a few of those lying around.

My primary concern is safety #1 for me #2 for my car. Small risk is acceptable. I am planning on swapping motors and trannies anyway if I can not cheaply repair the ones I am using. I figure I have a few years or 100-150 thousand miles before these start giving me problems. I would rather experiment on these units than my better drivetrain in the 75 :-)

if it works I save 2 grand a year when your making 14k a year 2 grand is HUGE :-) will give me incentive to switch my van over to diesel. Then I would save closer to $3k in fuel!! the savings alone would pay for the new engine in 1.2 years. I want to put a 4cyl Cummin TurboD in my van.

WVO is also a dead end I believe in the long run. Eventually all the sources will either be locked up (by another WVO user) or regulated out of usability (they want there taxes after all) OR the restaurants will get smart and start charging for it :-)

If I ever have enough to buy the processing rig to enable mass production of BioDiesel I will definitely give that a go just because it would be fun.

So that still leaves two questions. Will fuel and oil mix or separate and how MUCH oil can I burn ? I assume I can not go straight motor oil - whats the highest percentage I can dump in the tank with diesel ? can I go 75% motor oil and 25% diesel ?

It might not be a great idea - but its cheap financially and it sounds like a lot of fun to experiment with. IE its a project for me to do. and in the end it is better for the environment (recycling it this way) verse what there going to do with it but clearly not as good as veggie oil though I DO wonder what the emissions are from a veg car. might be interesting to put one through emissions inspection while running on bioD or veg oil just to see what the gas results are :-) though it is a lot of work I just might make 10 gallons of the stuff JUST to see what it reads when I dyno it. I bet I can get a local garage to do it for me just as an experiment. Then do it again on pure diesel and see what the differences are.

Another experiment now that sounds like fun :-)

Hmm... Biodiesel's technical name is Fatty Acid Methyl Ester. This is in no way related to petroleum diesel fuel. Now if you put vegetable oil (or anything else for that matter, including your cat) through a cracking process, you could make gasoline or diesel or asphalt, but it doesn't go the other direction. The real purpose of turning triglycerides (fats or oils) into "biodiesel" is to remove the glycerin molecule from the center of the triglyceride, replacing it with a much smaller and lighter methanol molecule at the head of each of the fatty acid chains, thus creating a new molecule and rendering its viscosity more suitable as a fuel. Glycerin is extraordinarily thick and heavy and vegetable oil, when not heated, is too thick to properly atomize in the cylinder under normal conditions. The other thing WVO/SVO burners conveniently overlook is the amount of Acrolein (toxic, acrid gas emission) produced when burning vegetable oil. This is a by-product of glycerin, which is not present in "biodiesel". In any case, WMO is still a petroleum product, not a triglyceride, and can't be processed the same way. Since you asked, I hope that helps.

__________________
'79 300D, Ivory "Gunther" ......going
'81 300SD, Metallic Blue Silver, The Grey Ghost.....going
'87 300D Turbo ...gone
'05 CDI.... gone

I didn't mean to imply that they use the centrifuge to reuse the crankcase oil in the fuel, but they most certainly do use it to clean the crankcase oil to reuse in the crankcase.

Do they also put in additives in the oil after "cleaning" it?

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-Oil-Cleaning-Centrifuge-by-Dieselcraft_W0QQitemZ330094968795QQihZ014QQcategoryZ33661QQcmdZViewItem

Centrifuge you might be able to use

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Yes but with the price of diesel today, I am thinking it is a wash. I went with diesel because at that time the mileage was higher and the fuel was lower. Today, with the fuel cost at the level it is, and the hassle, it about breaks even. My next car will not be a diesel unless it is for towing.

If I had to do alternative fuel, I'd go BioD way before I go with used oil because of the issues with particles and later the difficulty of starting. At least I think that starting an engine on even clean motor oil will be harder than Biodiesel or D2. In fact, it is more viscous. People who have run WVO supposedly change their injectors for that reason. IIRC, VW TDI people also send their IPs in to be modified. Not sure. If it was truly $0.55 a gal, I'd be doing it myself. However, when I factor in all the other stuff, just to be realistic, it doesn't come out that way. I factor in expenses as tho I were making the space, hiring someone to do the work, etc, etc and it is a whole lot more than $0.55 a gal.

I guess the question is "can you"? At this time, restaurants are still giving away WVO. I don't know about WMO. Have you checked it out before going this route? If you do get yourself set up and suddenly that source dries up, you are going to be SOL.

There are Biodiesel plants being set up already. There is one right outside of where I live. So, it won't be long before they start paying restaurants for the oil.

Why mass produce it? Are you planning on selling it?

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

I must be missing something here. Lead, copper, and aluminum are non ferrous metals. Magnets attract ferrous metals like iron, steel, and some stainless steel.

I have personally never seen lead, copper, aluminum, silver, gold, etc. attracted to a magnet unless iron was mixed with it.

If lead and copper were attracted to magnets, I would like to see that. It would give new ideas to engine oil filtration.

__________________
RRGrassi


70's Southern Pacific #5608 Fairmont A-4 MOW car

13 VW JSW 2.0 TDI 193K, Tuned with DPF and EGR Delete.

91 W124 300D Turbo replaced, Pressure W/G actuator installed. 210K

90 Dodge D250 5.9 Cummins/5 speed. 400K

No additives.
No, I don't have a centrifuge in my car, but, then again, I don't have 160 gallons of oil in my sump and an engine room big enough to hold a barn dance either.
The centrifuge they use (they call it a seperator) is made by DeLaval.
Apart from being a whole lot bigger, with more cones, it's practically the same design as the old DeLaval cream seperators. The sludge they get out of it is 99% carbon (soot) and none of that rare, magnetic lead.