The Ice-cube relay labeled "A" in my fuse/relay box has been remaining hot for some time. As far as I can tell, it feeds the power seats. I know I need to investigate the situation but in the meantime I wanted to get the ole girl to start. If not started every day, the battery is drained enough not to start the car. Yesterday, I pulled that relay and put my charger on. After hours of slow rate charging I tried again to start her. Turned over about 10 seconds before the battery was too low to spin her over fast enough. Today I will put the load tester on the battery to assess the condition of it (Interstate about a year old). However, w/o the relay in the socket is there anything that will stop it from starting?

New battery . . Optima, Interstate???

__________________
Steve
'87 300TD - 132K - Soon 4-Sale
'84 300D Turbo - 122K - Driving
'77 VW Type II - 77K - Restored
'08 250EX Ninja
English Bulldog (Brier) - My best friend. Passed away 12/02/04 while in my arms.

you need to check the charging circuit to verify that you are actually charging the battery, and then you need to find what is pulling the current if it is being charged properly. Best way to do this is to get a test light and connect between the positive battery cable and the battery. IF the lamp lights, you have too much draw.

Find the culprit by pulling fuses one by one or relays -- when the lamp goes out, you've got the problem isolated.

If the seat relay is on all the time, check for a bad door swich or pillar switch -- the seats work with the door open.

If the battery isn't bad, you may have a "tired" starter drawing way too much juice.

Peter

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

Peter, thanks again . . . saw you helped with my '84 300D Turbo also.

My '87 300TD will require more investigation tomorrow. I fully charged the Interstate battery and then put a load tester on it. 500 amp load and it still remained in the green. For the time being, the battery seems to be okay though I will change it prior to the real cold weather.

As I mentioned, the Ice Cube relay for the electric seats remains quite warm to the touch. To me, that indicates there is an electrical draw that is abnormal. That is where I am going to have to start chasing. If I leave the car w/o starting it for 2-3 days it won't start. Right now, it won't start even with the battery charged plus the electric booster (charger) on it. Needed more time today since I did two oil & filter changes, fuel filter change, plugs on one of the Toyota XLEs, tightened an alternator, baked a scratch birthday cake for one of my sons, shopped, oh sh_t don't I wish I could have just kept working on my vehicles.

__________________
Steve
'87 300TD - 132K - Soon 4-Sale
'84 300D Turbo - 122K - Driving
'77 VW Type II - 77K - Restored
'08 250EX Ninja
English Bulldog (Brier) - My best friend. Passed away 12/02/04 while in my arms.

That's what happens when you have too many cars....

I suspect you have a bad starter along with an excessive current draw. However, running the battery down flat repeatedly will kill a typical auto battery, get a series 49 battery to replace it with. Just barely fits (huge!) but will tolerate more charge/discharge cycles.

If you can measure starter draw, it should be less than 1000 amps (they pull quite a bit!) and starter must turn the engine at least 100 rpm for 15 sec, else it ain't gonna start cold.

you can try running the GP extra, too, that helps some. Should fire up instantly in good shape.

Peter

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

Also, I can emphasize that these engines REALLY rely on hot glow plugs to start, more so than the older 616/617 engines.

So, be absolutely sure that power is getting to your glow plugs. You can pull the connector at the glow plug relay on the driver's fender and check for 12V on the pins that supply the glow plugs. Have to do this in the first 30 seconds or so after turning on the key - because the relay cycles off after that time period. You should be able to easily hear the glow plug relay CLICK if you stand there while someone turns the key for you.

Check your battery connections at the battery (I'm sure you've done this anyway) and where the ground lead bolts to the body. Maybe unbolt it and clean it up some there - should be good metal-to-metal contact.

Good Luck,
Ken300D

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--------------------------
1982 300D at 351K miles
1984 300SD at 217K miles
1987 300D at 370K miles

Peter & Ken,
Though I didn't get a chance to delve into the MB enough today to find what the problem is, I did spend enough time to get it running. Couple of things . . .

1) Long trickle charge on the Interstate MB 88 (CA 940 & CCA 750) then using my charger as a jump did not do enough to start it. It would spin for a relatively long duration (20-30 seconds) at normal speed then slow down. Battery terminals are clean, treated with dielectric grease and tight. GP fuse is clean, treated w/dielectric grease and appears good. GP dash light acts as it has for the year + I have owned the car. GP relay stays active for approximately 40 seconds.

2) Put my trusty jumper cables on and held the pedal to the floor. Attempted to start a couple times before catching and running. Ran normal and started normal the remainder of the day. 40 degrees this morning when I first tried to start it. 60 degrees when it finally started.

3) Noticed diesel fuel on IP. Primarily towards the front and down along the left side. Didn't see any seeping so I cleaned it thoroughly and continued to watch for more to appear (while running of course). None noted yet.

4) Can these diesels flood? It certainly acted as if it was flooded and the fact that diesel was present on the IP makes me wonder . . .

5) I have not tested the glow plugs yet. Since I have a new set I believe I would be best to order a new relay (though I hate to spend the money if mine is working). My intention with the GP replacement was to change them at the same time I pull my injectors. Wanted to get them tested and set before winter arrives. Been reading about some of the problems encountered and have been questioning myself about doing it. Should be straightforward if I print enough of the posting threads so keep me going in the right direction.

All for now . . .

__________________
Steve
'87 300TD - 132K - Soon 4-Sale
'84 300D Turbo - 122K - Driving
'77 VW Type II - 77K - Restored
'08 250EX Ninja
English Bulldog (Brier) - My best friend. Passed away 12/02/04 while in my arms.

You have either a bad battery or a bad starter, it should crank much longer than that.

You do need the huge series 49 battery (950 CCA or larger). I would also pull the relay that stays hot, and unplug the radio antenna temporarily -- it can also pull too much juice if it's defective.

I also suspect you have a fuel leak at the suction pump -- check all the fuel lines and the thermostat for the fuel heater for leaks, they are probably bad. Can be replaced with standard fuel line of correct size. The o-rings in the thermostat can also go bad and cause a suction side leak.

When the suction line leaks, you can end up with an IP nearly empty of fuel, and it will take a LONG time to get enough fuel into the plungers on the first start to get it to fire. If you don't get any white smoke while cranking, this is the problem.

New fuel

Peter

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!