Another "not-starting" thread...

[CannonBall]

I've searched, but haven't really found anything exactly like what's happening to me. I'm willing to chalk it up to it being 6 degrees outside overnight and not having the block heater plugged in, but in a few hours we'll see.

I hook up jumper cables and even after a long wait get one or two GOOD kicks then it fizzles off. So I figured maybe my battery is SO dead that it just can't even take a jump (even possible?) well I had a new battery laying around, so I put it in, I have the exact same problem. I finally knocked on the people's door who I was parked near and they let me plug in my block heater and I have my girlfriends car out there running with jumper cables on mine, in a few hours I'll see if it'll start. I get an occational starter grind or just the WHIRLLING and so I think my solenoid is bad, but when it's engaging it shoudl still crank hard, but it gives me like 2 seconds of hope then nothing. It used to crank hard for a LONG time. Any help. I'll keep searching, I think there's just so many possibilities I'm having trouble narrowing it down. Basically, I HAVE to get it started and back to my place before I can like change the starter or adjust the valves and there's too much snow on the ground to pull start it.
-Nate


edit: I j ust changed the glow plugs and fuel filters, and it's been driven a LOT, I took it to Estes Park at 8000 feet, to the airport, all over, it's been running really well, it's been starting perfectly when plugged in and harder when not but still starting.


edit again: I'm reading these threads about 15 minutes of solid cranking time...that is not even a possibility with jumpers on from a CTD, could I have crappy jumpers? I think they're good, if that's the problem I'm going to punch myself.

[Jim H]

Yechhh, sound like no fun at all!

Can you check your starter cables for corrosion? Not just the connector at the battery and the starter, but an inch or so up into the wire?

I've seen a corroded cable that would pass current when damp, but the heat of starting dried it out and the car wouldn't start again for quite a while. Poor fella bought a new solenoid and a new starter, when all it took was a new cable. Boy, was he mad!

Best Regards,
Jim

[CannonBall]

well left the block heater plugged in for about an hour, and had it charging, then it cranked for about 30 - 45 seconds and it started. Seems like when I can get good hard cranks (ha ha) it will almost always start. Baah, what an ordeal, this started last night around 10, couldn't get it, the continued around 11 today. I guess I just HAVE to plug it in, now I get to drive home and check everything out. Thanks folks.
-Nate

[CannonBall]

it will start fine with the block heater. I drive a bus, and I'll take the bus out at 6:30am and plug my car into where the bus was and I'll occationally just get a lift home or ride my bike, leaving the diesel plugged in well over 24 hours in snow and well below zero temps and it will start up with 2 revs of the engine.
-Nate

[pawoSD]

My SD has a fairly hard time starting if the temps are 15 or less, above that it only takes maybe 4-5 coughing cranks and it gets going, below that it can take about 15-20 seconds of cranking but it always gets going eventually(even when it was -7 out last winter, but it took 3 tries of that, and I allllmost drained the battery too far). I have no block heater, my dad's 83 has one, but we haven't used it yet, because it always seems to start fine without it, thing is, my engine runs smoother than his (his nails, probably injector related, he's running Delo injector cleaner and says it has made a slight difference already) I think his starter is in better shape than mine, it practically rocks the car when he starts it, it sounds REAL powerful. Mine always does the job but sounds....not as strong. I guess we'll see....if I have real probs when it gets colder out I'll look into a heater. Are those "prostart" heaters any good? I don't think I'd want to mess with the freeze plug on mine, as its never been removed....but a heater of some sort to ease starting would be good, maybe I'll just put my shoplight under it on a timer when its real cold, a few hours of that shining on it in the morning would probably make quite a difference wouldn't it? Also thats the least expensive idea, 300watt halogens last 1500hours and are $4 for two I'm in college, cheaper is allllways better.

[whunter]

Originally Posted by CannonBall

I've searched, but haven't really found anything exactly like what's happening to me. I'm willing to chalk it up to it being 6 degrees outside overnight and not having the block heater plugged in, but in a few hours we'll see.

I hook up jumper cables and even after a long wait get one or two GOOD kicks then it fizzles off. So I figured maybe my battery is SO dead that it just can't even take a jump (even possible?) well I had a new battery laying around, so I put it in, I have the exact same problem. I finally knocked on the people's door who I was parked near and they let me plug in my block heater and I have my girlfriends car out there running with jumper cables on mine, in a few hours I'll see if it'll start. I get an occational starter grind or just the WHIRLLING and so I think my solenoid is bad, but when it's engaging it shoudl still crank hard, but it gives me like 2 seconds of hope then nothing. It used to crank hard for a LONG time. Any help. I'll keep searching, I think there's just so many possibilities I'm having trouble narrowing it down. Basically, I HAVE to get it started and back to my place before I can like change the starter or adjust the valves and there's too much snow on the ground to pull start it.
-Nate
edit: I j ust changed the glow plugs and fuel filters, and it's been driven a LOT, I took it to Estes Park at 8000 feet, to the airport, all over, it's been running really well, it's been starting perfectly when plugged in and harder when not but still starting.
edit again: I'm reading these threads about 15 minutes of solid cranking time...that is not even a possibility with jumpers on from a CTD, could I have crappy jumpers? I think they're good, if that's the problem I'm going to punch myself.

Your starter is JUNK, replace it...
Change engine oil to 0W40 synthetic.

[Jim H]

Ahah! It sounds like the problem isn't so much with the electrical system and charging as getting the starter to spin the engine fast enough, long enough.

Cranking speed is important to making enough heat on compression stroke for combustion. Glow plugs warm the precombustion chamber to help speed things along, but can't do all the work. Cranking speed builds enough heat of compression to ignite the fuel, and running causes the precombustion chambers and the rest to warm up to produce sustained power.

The block heater warms the oil, which thins the oil, which allows the same power in the starter motor to spin the engine a little faster.

Hmm, how about using 'thinner' oil, like synthetic? Less viscous when cold, and better high temperature attributes...

I'm considering using synthetic for my next change, to see if cold cranking is improved. I don't always have a place to plug in the block heater, but synth will always be in the oil pan.

Best Regards,
Jim

[psfred]

You probably have several things going here:

Too thick oil -- use 10W30 or thinner synthetic for winter use

Late injection and valve timing (worn chain, most likely -- check stretch and replace if necessary)

Slow starter. If you don't get 100 rpm or more cold, replace with NEW or BOSCH REBUILD -- the armature is bad, new bearings and brushes won't fix it.

Tight valves -- do a valve adjust. If tight, leave a bit loose and re-check in 100 miles.

In decent shape, an MB diesel should start with no problems down to about zero F without a block heater.

Peter

[SD Blue]

when I had recent starter problems: Check your grounding straps from the battery to chassis and chassis to engine. I had an engine ground strap that was attached to an exhaust bracket and the bracket itself was loose. Changed two starters because of it. Someone here on this forum pointed out the problem to me.

The original symptom was a slow starter (not due to cold weather ).

[whunter]

Originally Posted by pawoSD

My SD has a fairly hard time starting if the temps are 15 or less, above that it only takes maybe 4-5 coughing cranks and it gets going, below that it can take about 15-20 seconds of cranking but it always gets going eventually(even when it was -7 out last winter, but it took 3 tries of that, and I allllmost drained the battery too far). I have no block heater, my dad's 83 has one, but we haven't used it yet, because it always seems to start fine without it, thing is, my engine runs smoother than his (his nails, probably injector related, he's running Delo injector cleaner and says it has made a slight difference already) I think his starter is in better shape than mine, it practically rocks the car when he starts it, it sounds REAL powerful. Mine always does the job but sounds....not as strong. I guess we'll see....if I have real probs when it gets colder out I'll look into a heater. Are those "prostart" heaters any good? I don't think I'd want to mess with the freeze plug on mine, as its never been removed....but a heater of some sort to ease starting would be good, maybe I'll just put my shoplight under it on a timer when its real cold, a few hours of that shining on it in the morning would probably make quite a difference wouldn't it? Also thats the least expensive idea, 300watt halogens last 1500hours and are $4 for two I'm in college, cheaper is allllways better.

Check your glow plugs.
Replace your starter...
Cheaper is better; until you are left walking five miles at 2:00 AM Sunday.