Hi all,

I've been watching sales on eBay and elswhere and have come to the conclusion that people overpay for "low mileage" examples of the MB diesel line and I can't really understand why. Say, you are looking at 6-20 year old diesel. The prices tend to escalate exponentially when mileage is below 100K. Get one below 50K and forget about it. People will pay insane money (IMHO) for one of these. Even a 20 year old model people will consider paying $15K-$20K or more for when the same model in comparable condition with higher (100K-150K) miles can be had for half or sometimes much less than half the price.
Low mileage cars, in my opinion have some real pitfalls associated with them, namely that many parts "wear out" from age just as much as from use...maybe moreso. Vacuum and cooling hoses and rubber diaphrams, rubber bushings, flex plates, fuel lines, etc. Chances are that a car which is 6-20 years old will still need significant work done on it anyway. High mileage cars probably have a higher percentage of highway miles which are far less stressful on a car than city miles. I would sooner buy a car with 150K highway miles on it than one with 30K all city miles. Not to mention a certain eBay seller in NJ who always seems to find 20+ year old Benzs with crazy low miles on them. Who knows how many of these cars with "low miles" don't have just as many miles on them as any others after some work on the odometer. I saw one on ebay yesterday with 70K miles on it with a hole worn clear through the driver's mat under the gas pedal. Never saw that on any model with under 200K-300K before

Why do people pay a 100%+ premium for a car with 50K-100K fewer miles on it when these cars will all last to at least 200K-300K miles with reasonable PM attention? It's not like these are museum pieces that they will buy and put away, I assume most people who buy these drive them.

I think if you buy one in the low to mid 100K mile range you get the benefit of the most depreciation and still can get an easy 100K miles out of most of these fine cars with as little (or as much) trouble as a low mileage version. If the car is straight and rust free then anything else can be fixed for less than the difference in price, including a new engine and transmission if necessary! Even if you have to invest some money in replacing aging or worn out parts you at least have the peace of mind knowing that your car now has brand new parts instead of 6-20 year ones.

I just don't get it, but I guess there is something to be said to buy a 20 year old car with low mileage, but I think ultimately these cars are money pits that depreciate so much faster for every mile they are driven that it is crazy to buy one.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

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Marty D.

2013 C300 4Matic
1984 BMW 733i
2013 Lincoln MKz

I think it is collecters driving the market for these. You would be stupid to pay $10k+ on an old MB and drive it everyday. Low mileage cars are generally pretty nice, they are paying for a nice body and interior, everything else is pretty cheap to fix.

For a driver I don't care what the odo says, I care about condition and maintaince history. I would buy a 200k car with a perfect maintaince history in perfect shape, over a 100k car with a few stories and no maintaince record.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I dunno, do people really collect these??? It's not like any of these cars were limited editions that have any special collector's appeal like a '55 Gullwing or even a nice SL...I guess it's like the old used car salesman said to me when I inquired about who in their right mind would buy a particularly ugly orange color of Cadillac, he said "There's an ass for every seat". That sums it up about life too. I use that saying all the time now.

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Marty D.

2013 C300 4Matic
1984 BMW 733i
2013 Lincoln MKz

i've asked the same question with nary a satisfying answer. it also gets into the insurance premium area. why over pay for a car that your ins. co. thinks is worth less than your purchase price. it is an uphill fight i would think to prove your 20+ yr old car is worth 15 grand when they want to send you 5.

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currently
[1981 300 td tdidi 165500 dark brown/palamino-Brownie-mine-3k miles of ownership
1983 240d 162+++ Anthricite grey w/ henna red interior and hella lights-wifes car-Red

the above two cars are for sale
and can be seen on the cars for sale thread here. pix also available.


240d-144+ Manilla Yellow w/ palmino interior-greasecar kit-Blondie-the college kids car

23" gt 21 speed still on original tires-still got the nubs
21" khs tandem

Maybe some people thing they're getting a "new" car. They think if one of these cars is good at 100-200K miles then one with 50K is even better.
Problem is that with these cars they need to be driven or things are going to go bad. The one I looked at with around 50K had to have the transmission replaced because it wasn't driven enough. Luckily the original owner took care of it before selling it but there were other issues that were showing up when I looked at it.
Other cars may be more forgiving if not driven much but not MB's.

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DJ


84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012

If your looking on E-Bay then it's like getting into a "Used Car" salesmans head. There job is to sell. Mercedes Benz is a name to which "pristine", "excellence" and "prestiege" is the key word. They often feed off of the Mercedes name. Rapeing a would be normal hard working guys, who often have wanted to own a MB but couldn't afford it. Now that he's able to think about it a bit more he thinks he can buy a MB at good prices. Most people don't know the details of owning a car of 10-20 years old especially a MB. They'll pay $8-$10K on a 10-20 year old MB and wind up spending $5-$10k in the next several years for maintenance. I'd much rather own a MB with 150-250K and all the service records available to me.

There is much to be said about a car with a Paper Trail than Miles on a car.

I think there is a growing perception that MB does not make them like they use to. Probably due to the mixing of genes with Chysler and the hammering by the press over bad quality.

EvilBay is a fool's paradise. Roll back the odometer, use a gallon of Armoral and wa-la instant 71K mile car. Throw in some comments about being a Doctor's car and how rare and excusive this fine vehicle is and watch the stampede.

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Bill Reimels
Now down to one:
1972 300SE 3.5 W109 (Euro delivery)

It's not just MB diesels or low mileage MBs. It is any low mileage cars with some age on them. I saw a Pacer with something like 31,000 miles go for an outrageous price. I have also seen cars like '79 Ford LTDs with low miles go for $10,000 or more. I think people think that if they are low mileage they are like new - no maintenance. They don't think about rubber items dry rotting and seals drying up. I would much rather have a useable car with average miles and an impeccable service history. The low mileage cars don't seem practical unless you are going to continue to store/display them and not use them. I would be the type that would be less likely to drive a lower mileage older car because I would always think,"if I drive this to (insert destination here) then it will be x miles added to the car."

Now you have me worried there. I was thinking after I finish fixing up my SD, that it would be a Summer Car. I will of course start it up here and there, but not really drive it.

So you think I will ahve actually problems?

You may or may not but you want to make sure you don't leave it sitting for too long. When you do drive it make sure you get it well warmed up and not just start it and take it around the block and park it again.

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DJ


84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012

I have been shopping for a 1991 350SD or SDL. It just happens that there are two 350SDs on e-bay right now and both of them are within driving distance. I have driven both of them, one is very nice. Yesterday I drove a 230K mile 1991 350SDL and a 350SD. The difference in performance was striking. The lower mileage car had much more power and was in great condition.

I don't care if they are low miles or high miles, I just want to drive it another 200K miles on biodiesel and have a safe big car for my family. I would buy a different car if there was something comparable in diesel, but there isn't.

So, if any of you have a 1991 350SD or 350SDL (or other '94 + S-class) that runs great, doesn't leak oil or fuel, has a good transmission, doesn't need front-end work, and is a light color, then let me know. I want it.

P.S. I can't believe people buy cars without seeing them on e-bay.

-BOB-

You make a valid point. A recent case in point--here in North Miami where I live I saw a 81 Rabbit Diesel advertised 2 weeks ago in our Auto Trader with 39K original miles. Only 3 blocks from my house. When I got there-the seller related it belonged to an old fellow he bought his house from and it was left as part of the deal. He also related it had been parked under a a carport, UNSTARTED for 5-6 years. While it started OK with minimal smoke-his selling story did not add up. Many items such as hoses, mounts were not replaced. Car had no Maint. History--small items were dry rotted from lack of use. In the end I passed on it as much as I wanted it. I would rather find one that has been Used but maintained with records. In these days of Rising Fuel prices, my thought is, why would someone get rid of one of these gems that get 40-50mpg? Low mileage cars are not always what they appear to be.

I don't see whats all this commotion all about? Big deal that there are those who are willing to pay top-dollar for low milage, pristine examples. They have every right to do so... and they're not stupid in doing so unless they're blindly walking into a purchase in which the car is really not as its represented to be.

The cars that are the real deal.. meaning, perfect interior/exterior condition and mechanically,with owner logs, and verified carfax miles are GREAT purchases. These are the cars that go up as much as $10k-15k+.

I recently picked up a 560 that was just as I wrote above for a price that some of you would flinch at. Why did I do so? Because finding one thats as close to "as new" physically is getting harder and harder to find. Finding an older car, in my case a 15 year old car, in "as new" condition is A LOT harder to find than one thats mechanically great. Finding one that covers BOTH aspects is even harder. Thats why I believe paying up front for one thats physically in great shape is more important than mechanically as mechanically repairs will be cheaper than getting the car restored in appearance.

Many of you own cars that are mechanically in great shape... however the appearance of some is just Thats not meant to put some of you down, but its a point to make... some of you prefer a car thats just great mechanically. Others, like myself, prefer one thats BOTH mechanicaly and physically in great shape and are willing to pay up front.

I am very lucky to find a car that I was searching actively for 6 months, and was happy to have paid what I did. There are several people that I know are looking for a car just like picked up and I bed they would have spent way more to get it if they were not patient to shop and wait.


About ebay cars... ebay is a big gamble. I am happy that I did not find my car on ebay. There are several 560's, and I would bet the same would go for diesel cars... that are advertised as "low miles".. yet the condition of them shows otherwise. There's a 560 with 65k miles or so thats on ebay with several days left, and in the pictures.. the car doesn't look great for its milage. There's a white 560SEC on ebay thats also listed as low milage... running a carfax shows a odometer rollback, and you can even see the scratches on the odometer showing it was tampered with. People who blindly walk into these purchases are the ones that are getting ripped off.... not the ones that are picking up legit, harder-to-find cars like myself.

my 2 spark plugs

My original point was not comparing low mileage nice examples to high mileage ugly ones...there the rationale is obvious. My point was, there are plenty of really nice, garage kept, near mint higher mileage examples which go for a fraction of what low mileage cars go for. When you think about it, it makes no sense to spend 2-3X as much for a car that has 50K miles fewer than another example in equal condition when either car will last another 100-200K miles anyway, especially when those extra 50K miles will not come any cheaper than the later ones because of the age of the vehicle. I've concluded that it is not a case that the high mileage cars are "cheap" or a bargain, its that low mileage cars are overpriced and people drive up the price beyond what is logically justified for them.

If it makes you feel good to have a low mileage car, that's great and is enough to justify the premium I suupose. But just like buying a new car, realize you're paying a premium with respect to the cost of depreciation per mile which is disproportionate to the expected life of the car.

The insurance issue is another good one. When I bought my '98 I inquired with my State Farm agent about how they determine the value of the vehicle if it was stolen or totalled. At first they told me it was the blue book value. I asked further about which blue book value: retail sale, private party sale or trade-in? I told them that the difference for my car was about 50% between trade-in and retail sale. They didn't know what I meant and handed me off to the claims department who explained that they don't really rely on the books at all, each car is inspected and local markets are surveyed to determine the "replacement value"....yeah, right!

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Marty D.

2013 C300 4Matic
1984 BMW 733i
2013 Lincoln MKz

There was a 1990 Olds Cierra wagon for sale locally thru the free want ads that had a documented 6000 miles- gramma bought it, drove to the store, died, etc. It was for sale for $3000. I almost bought it just because I know people are suckers for low mileage cars - always have been, always will be.

Wonder if I should have bought it??

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1984 300Sd 210k

Former cars:
1984 300D 445k (!!) (Strider) Original (and not rebuilt) engine and transmission. Currently running on V80 ( 80% vegetable oil, 20% petroleum products). Actually not, taking a WVO break.
1993 300d 2.5 275k. Current 120/day commuter
1981 300SD 188k (Hans) Killed by a deer