Engine Weight for a 617.952?

[Gil]

Anyone know what one of the turbodiesel engines from a 123 car weighs? I've seen 538lbs. quoted, but this seems kind of high, considering a GM small block V8 (iron block and heads) weighs slightly less. This could be wet or dry weight; I'm not certain.

I'm doing a conversion to a SB V8 and am wondering if new front springs will be needed.

Any thoughts?

(yeah, I know, insert purist, anti-conversion rhetoric here )

[Krawsczyn]

I would like to state for everyone’s behalf upon this matter that this is action is a disgrace. These cars are legendary for reliability. If you drop a small block into it you will lose reliability, and as you sit alongside the road with your broken small block, you will eat away at this beauty that this car earned. To answer you question 528lbs is not unreasonable at all. This is a diesel engine and diesel engines weigh more than that of a gas. Look at a Cummins, Power Stroke, Detroit, or whatever descent diesel you like to. A diesel engine must weigh more due to the high compression. In these engines case about twice as much as a normal gas engine.
Furthermore a small block with cast iron heads and block comes in at about 600lbs. I know this due to the fact I was considering swapping out the engine in my rattlebox corvette to a big block.
Please get a GM product to hold this small block.

[Old300D]

There is a thread open on this already. MB shop current thread

The diesel engine may be a bit heavier than the SBC - to help the weight bias a bit consider installing 240D springs.

BTW, ignore the purists. The W123 chassis is a really good unit, and will appreciate any powerplant you care to install. Just don't tell anyone if you plan to put in an English or Italian engine. Personally I think the engine/transmission from a Buick Grand National would be a marriage made in heaven for the W123.

[boneheaddoctor]

Originally Posted by Old300D

There is a thread open on this already. MB shop current thread

The diesel engine may be a bit heavier than the SBC - to help the weight bias a bit consider installing 240D springs.

BTW, ignore the purists. The W123 chassis is a really good unit, and will appreciate any powerplant you care to install. Just don't tell anyone if you plan to put in an English or Italian engine. Personally I think the engine/transmission from a Buick Grand National would be a marriage made in heaven for the W123.

I'll back you on that....serious power with less than serious weight....

[Gil]

Hey, thanks - I never considered the fact that diesels have to be heavier for the compression, etc. so now it doesn't surprise me that a SBC might be a tad lighter. Lighter still, considering the one I'm going to go with has aluminum heads (an aluminum block is available, but way too much $$$). I'll have to look into the 240D spring option too. Might be worth a shot.

Oh yeah, lest I upset the purists again, it will also have no problems starting in sub zero weather (should I have to drive it in such temps), the gas engine noise won't put me to sleep like the diesel does on long drives (yes, the V8 is quieter - I'll finally be able to hear the radio), and it'll pack nearly 500 ponies to boot. Try that with veg oil.

See you in the rear view mirror!

-Gil

[boneheaddoctor]

Originally Posted by Gil

Hey, thanks - I never considered the fact that diesels have to be heavier for the compression, etc. so now it doesn't surprise me that a SBC might be a tad lighter. Lighter still, considering the one I'm going to go with has aluminum heads (an aluminum block is available, but way too much $$$). I'll have to look into the 240D spring option too. Might be worth a shot.

Oh yeah, lest I upset the purists again, it will also have no problems starting in sub zero weather (should I have to drive it in such temps), the gas engine noise won't put me to sleep like the diesel does on long drives (yes, the V8 is quieter - I'll finally be able to hear the radio), and it'll pack nearly 500 ponies to boot. Try that with veg oil.

See you in the rear view mirror!

-Gil

IF it saves a classic from the Crusher who has the right to complain......

[Old300D]

Originally Posted by Gil

Hey, thanks - I never considered the fact that diesels have to be heavier for the compression, etc. so now it doesn't surprise me that a SBC might be a tad lighter. Lighter still, considering the one I'm going to go with has aluminum heads (an aluminum block is available, but way too much $$$). I'll have to look into the 240D spring option too. Might be worth a shot.

Oh yeah, lest I upset the purists again, it will also have no problems starting in sub zero weather (should I have to drive it in such temps), the gas engine noise won't put me to sleep like the diesel does on long drives (yes, the V8 is quieter - I'll finally be able to hear the radio), and it'll pack nearly 500 ponies to boot. Try that with veg oil.

See you in the rear view mirror!

-Gil

Watch out for the cops and the gasoline stations!

[240Demon]

I don't know why people have such a hard-on for putting 1950's technology in their cars. The Small Block Chevy is a pushrod engine...which is old technology. If I was going to swap a V8 into a 123 I think I would look at one of the Mercedes V8's because you have overhead cam(s), EFI and its 1,000,000 times better engineered than the SBC. On top of that, everyone has a _____ with a small block in it, do something original. The GNX motor swap, though not MB, would be kinda neat, I will admit.

[boneheaddoctor]

Originally Posted by 240Demon

I don't know why people have such a hard-on for putting 1950's technology in their cars. The Small Block Chevy is a pushrod engine...which is old technology. If I was going to swap a V8 into a 123 I think I would look at one of the Mercedes V8's because you have overhead cam(s), EFI and its 1,000,000 times better engineered than the SBC. On top of that, everyone has a _____ with a small block in it, do something original. The GNX motor swap, though not MB, would be kinda neat, I will admit.

becasue its NOT 1,000,000 times better engineered than a SBC....just becasue its a 1,000 times more expensive.

A late model SBC with TPI can make twice the power of the Benz motor, get twice the fuel economy and cost 1/2 as much.

Bosch Mechanical fuel injection is far more archaic than Multi-point Electronic Fuel Injection is and far less tuneable.

[Krawsczyn]

GM is the only way to go for big power at an affordable price. Good luck with your build.

[240Demon]

Ok...Bonehead is full of ***** because...


1) You will NOT get twice the mileage with a smallblock than a Benz V8...I have lots of friends with SBCs in everything and no one of them get more than 18 mpg...and i strongly doubt you will get 9 mpg with a V8 Benz...unless you have a switch for the throttle...on and off

2) I never said anything about Mechanical Fuel Injection...but TPI isn't the best fuel injection system ever produced...its like anything else on a Chevy...cheap

Krawsczyn- The Smallblock ain't the only way to make big power for cheap...I will give you the prime example...
My friend has a 1978 Ford Fairmont Wagon that he transplanted a 2.3 Turbo Motor out of a Thunderbird...This car runs 13.5's at full weight...and he has $1000 in the whole car... so don't make such rash generalizations...My friend has a SBC that is putting out roughly the same power as that 2.3 Turbo...and he has $4000 in parts in it.

[boneheaddoctor]

Originally Posted by 240Demon

Ok...Bonehead is full of ***** because...


1) You will NOT get twice the mileage with a smallblock than a Benz V8...I have lots of friends with SBCs in everything and no one of them get more than 18 mpg...and i strongly doubt you will get 9 mpg with a V8 Benz...unless you have a switch for the throttle...on and off

2) I never said anything about Mechanical Fuel Injection...but TPI isn't the best fuel injection system ever produced...its like anything else on a Chevy...cheap

Krawsczyn- The Smallblock ain't the only way to make big power for cheap...I will give you the prime example...
My friend has a 1978 Ford Fairmont Wagon that he transplanted a 2.3 Turbo Motor out of a Thunderbird...This car runs 13.5's at full weight...and he has $1000 in the whole car... so don't make such rash generalizations...My friend has a SBC that is putting out roughly the same power as that 2.3 Turbo...and he has $4000 in parts in it.

#3....if your buddy has $4,000 into a SBC making the power of a stock 2.3 turbo...the man is an idiot....because you can buy a new crate motor puting out over 400hp and 500 foot lbs of tourque for $4,000.

#2....TPI is very tunible...and very reliable..name a better system at less than 4 times the price.

#1....You get 24-28 MPG in a big ole Caprice on the highway.....my brother gets better than 20 MPG with his 1/2 ton 2wd truck on the highway, thats what we get with these 5 cylinder turbo diesels on the highway. 24-28 mpg

[240Demon]

Thats bull....you don't get 24-28 in a Caprice!!! Bull *****

[boneheaddoctor]

Originally Posted by 240Demon

Thats bull....you don't get 24-28 in a Caprice!!! Bull *****

on the highway you do......they have an overdrive....and I am talking a 1995 Caprice not a 1975 caprice.

I get 42 mpg on the new Jersey turnpike at 70 mph with my SL2 Saturn.....Meadowlands to DC....twice got the same milage.

[240Demon]

That Saturn Mileage is impressive...

I will admit I was thinking 1975 Caprice...