Snibble I will run 400 miles a week on my car during the school year. I don't want to buy that much fuel, I'd rather spend my money on other things.

Assuming I would get 15mpg out of a 560SEL thats like $70 a week; vs $40-$45 for my SDL. I do mostly stop and go and city driving.

If you drive a lot fuel costs add up over the course of a year.

$30 a week over the course of a year is $1560. I could buy myself a very nice fly rod or new pair of ski's everyear with those savings.

If I drove like 100 miles a week I wouldn't give a crap about fuel mileage or cost.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I would wager that there are very few mb diesel-heads who would claim that the 6 is more long lived than the 617; aluminum vs iron, duel overhead vs single overhead cam (higher revs vs lower revs). I remember a discussion on another board that made a lot of sense. The basic idea was that the diesel 6's were engineered from start to finish to be placed in luxury s-class vehicles. The diesel 5's were engineered from start to finish to be placed in workhorse vehicles (trucks-taxi's-limos) and industrial machinery. Consumer grade longevity vs industrial grade longevity.

Cold weather starting ability for people who live in a northern climate could be an easy demarcation line between the 617 and the 603/606 engines.

When I lived in Portland Maine, my 1984 300D would not start if the temp fell below 15 degrees fahrenheit unless the block heater had been plugged in the night before. And this is with a new battery and starter motor.

I do not know how the six cylinder cars would do in the cold, but if they will start in the winter with-out plugging them then that could play into the decision process for those who live in the north.

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Anders

1995 E300
2015 VW TDI Sportwagen 15K
1977 240D (197K)
2002 Subaru Legacy L Wagon (115k) (Wife's)
Gone but not forgotten:
2005 Buick LeSabre
1998 C230
1984 300D
1983 240D
1981 300SD
1974 240D
1974 Fiat 124 Spider
1968 Triumph TR250

I've had one 617 in the family and a 601 as well as a 603. The 60x engines start better in the cold. They seem to take a little longer to warm up to if if you know what I mean. Once the 617 is running, if you get it running, the engiens smoothes out faster. The 603 will skip for a minute or two. Also, you will see more higher mileage 603 engined cars for sale than 617's, look for yourself. I've personally looked at buying two different SDL's before I bought mine and each had between 450-465k miles. A 617 doesn't hold any compression that long.

The 617's are generally harder to break, (harder to over-heat, etc.), but they also tend to wear out faster.

Thanks
David

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2000 Honda Accord V6 137k miles

1972 300SEL 4.5 98k miles

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I found 17 sdl's and 19 sd's on cars.com. Just from this it does indeed appear that the sdl's are lasting longer. Interesting...

Note; I deleted the listings that did not include odometer mileage.

SDL

1987 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SDL $6,856 236,553 The Toy Store Sedan Blue
1987 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SDL $6,250 159,000 Dealer Sedan Gray
1986 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SDL $5,700 139,950 Individual Seller Sedan Charcoal
1986 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SDL $4,999 228,000 Dealer Sedan Gray
1987 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SDL $4,900 315,765 Ditmire Motorworks Sedan Blue
1987 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SDL $4,200 -- Classified Ad
1986 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SDL $3,950 194,756 Best Import Motors, Inc. Sedan Grey
1987 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SDL $2,995 259,114 Individual Seller Sedan White
1987 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SDL $2,800 115,000 Individual Seller

SD
1985 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SD $9,000 116,000 Classified Ad
1984 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SD $4,500 195,000 Classified Ad Sedan Blue
1984 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SD $3,990 193,000 Classified Ad Blue
1985 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SD $3,800 201,000 Classified Ad Gray .
1983 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SD $3,300 -- Classified Ad mi.
1983 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SD $3,200 200,000 Classified Ad
1983 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SD $3,050 161,000 Individual Seller Sedan Gold
1984 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SD $3,000 -- Classified Ad
1984 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SD $2,900 167,000 Classified Ad Sedan Green
1985 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SD $2,500 135,000 Classified Ad
1985 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SD $2,500 232,000 Classified Ad
1984 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SD $2,488 171,000 Hughs Wheels & Deals Sedan Silver
1983 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SD $2,300 195,000 Individual Seller Sedan Silver
1983 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SD $2,000 146,000 Classified Ad Black
1983 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 300SD $2,000 146,000 Classified Ad

Rarely do I ever see an SDL around these parts. I've seen PLENTY of W123's, W116's, and 81-85 W126's. I have run into a W124 300TD, very nice car. I'd trade a W123 wagon for a W124 wagon in 1/2 a heartbeat.

I've found this to be very true as well. The SD has struggled at 10°F. without the block heater. The SDL started at 8°F. and you never would have thought it was below freezing. Just a 30 second glow and it was running in it's usual one second.

82 - very few SDL's were built, thus explaining why there aren't more around. The 617 powered cars were the #1 selling MB throughout the late 70's and through the mid 80's, that's why there are so many around.

Thanks
David

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2000 Honda Accord V6 137k miles

1972 300SEL 4.5 98k miles

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I would, until I was blue in the face.

Winter just isn't a problem anymore for the newer diesel engines. If the fuel isn't gell a 603 or newer model, and in good shape will be just as reliable as a gas car in the winter.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

The 6 and the 5 have single overhead cams. I think that if you look at examples on the streets you will see more high mileage 603's than 617's. The 617s just tend to wear out, though most of them rust away or are totalled in accidents, however, how often do you see a 617 with over 400k miles without a rebuild? I know of one.

Thanks
David

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2000 Honda Accord V6 137k miles

1972 300SEL 4.5 98k miles

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Just don't forget that the OM617 has 1-12 years over the OM603 and 8-20 years over the 606.

I love my 617, but if I wanted some REAL power from a W123, I'd swap in a 98-99 OM606. A 606 will put out more power STOCK than an OM617 would after a weekend of $$$ and tweaking.

"617s just tend to wear out, though most of them rust away or are totalled in accidents, however, how often do you see a 617 with over 400k miles without a rebuild? I know of one."

Really, I think it's time for some 617 owners to speak up here. There are lots and lots of 617's that have over 400k without a rebuild. I met a guy last winter at our local street fair who was setting up his booth and I noticed his yellow SD. Struck up a conversation with him; 630,000 miles on an 84. Original engine no rebuilds. His tranny was rebuilt at 500,000, even though he said it was still functioning through all the gears, just too rough. There was a thread here about a guy who tore his 617 down at 500,000 miles for a preventative rebuild, but every thing was still to spec, and he just put all the old components back together. Just look around this forum and you will see many high, very high milage 617's. Preventable catastrofic failures caused by timing chain, cooling system, and run-away engines are the biggest threat to the 617. The 617 engine is not one that "just tends to wear out," unless it is completely neglected.

Saw one yesterday with 398k at Pick-N-Pull. KKK turbo was on there too, it was an '84 model with a grey interior.

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I'm not a doctor, but I'll have a look.

'85 300SD 245k
'87 300SDL 251k
'90 300SEL 326k

Six others from BMW, GM, and Ford.

Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to liberty.[/IMG]

I agree...
I have a 24 year old 282Kmile 300SD (that was NOT maintained properly in its history before me) and it will match a low miles 1996 3.1L V-6 gasser olds coupe in a race off a stop light.
Not an amazing feat but it sure stands to show that it hasn't worn out yet and is showing no indication of doing so anytime soon.

My 617 with 220k miles has a scary amount of blow by. I know that car was taken care of to.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200