Pro and cons of rebuilding the baby.... - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

t walgamuth · #1 06-25-2006, 11:18 AM

excellent starting point.

tom w

blueranger · #2 06-25-2006, 12:29 PM

well, lets just imagine how cheaply we could get a car with
a thrown rod back on the road....

suppose the rod broke a hole in the block... I could mend the block
using alomoly and a torch... cost 5 bucks...

If the crank was good I could get an old piston at a junk yard 25 bucks...

Now she is on the road for 25 bucks....reusing the old head gasket..

Now if there were some bent valves... I could get an old head or even just replace a few valves....

If you wanted to be fancy... then you could alomoly the block, and buy the junkyard piston, and also spring for a new head gasket....

You see the price varation on this project ranges from 30 bucks to 6000... its all up to you....

#3 06-25-2006, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueranger

well, lets just imagine how cheaply we could get a car with
a thrown rod back on the road....

suppose the rod broke a hole in the block... I could mend the block
using alomoly and a torch... cost 5 bucks...

If the crank was good I could get an old piston at a junk yard 25 bucks...
Now she is on the road for 25 bucks....reusing the old head gasket..

Please tell me you are joking...

mbzr4ever · #4 06-25-2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

Please tell me you are joking...

I was very interested in your links for the online manual, but it gave me this error message. Am I doing something wrong?

Not Found

The requested URL /123_DISK2/program/Engine\615\00-120.pdf was not found on this server.

mbzr4ever · #5 06-25-2006, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

Let's back up a little. Obviously, you're not going to get it back on the road for $200, and it's not clear what your mechanic is planning on giving you for $2500. A good quality rebuilt engine will cost around $5000, plus shipping and labor. A junkyard engine can be found for around $500, plus shipping. You may want to start by finding out what your mechanic is offering for that price. Does he have access to a good engine, or is he just guessing? If you know what you can get for $2500, then you will have a basis to compare your other options.

My preference would be to get the mechanic to give me a firm quote in writing. Now, the last time I talked to him, he was backing off any fixed price and saying he would like to charge me actual everything - actual parts, actual labor, etc. This is from the "best" and only mbz repair mechanic in town, without going to the mbz dealer. He wants to pull it into the shop and put his assistants on an engine swap full time for about a week, and charge it like a repair. He has just purchased the business from the previous owner (who was more willing to negotiate a better price, by working on it between regular repairs, scour around for cheaper but still functioning parts, etc).

The only available engines he has on hand (used, of course) would be the 5 cylinders, out of the 300s. I think he mentioned about $500 for one? He is only guessing, however, at the fit. Doesn't even know if some other modifications would be necessary to attach properly.

I get the impression the new mechanic/owner doesn't really want to mess with rebuilding - either doesn't know how or ??? Doesn't even really want to get into the exact reasons why the engine can't run. He just wants to pull the old engine out, and put another one in, for a blank check basically.

Now I have also thought about taking it to a local, backyard mechanic type - you know the kind that does this kind of stuff on the weekends, out of his garage, etc. Really, how sophisticated does the mechanic have to be, as long as he has rebuilt mbz diesels before?

#6 06-25-2006, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbzr4ever

He wants to pull it into the shop and put his assistants on an engine swap full time for about a week, and charge it like a repair.

Red flags are going up. An engine swap (Even to convert it over to a 5-turbo) is a weekend job. From pulling the engine out of my TD, swaping cars in the shop, fixing minor things on the engine, getting the flywheel machined, installing the engine, installing the tranny, fill coolant, flush brakes and clutch, wiring a manual glowplug controller, to driving it out the door. All that took me 2 days work (About 18 actual hours) and the only time a second person touched the car was to help bleed the brakes/clutch.

Never allow work in a shop (independent or dealer) without a written/printed job quote. It's a blank check without one.

The online manual is just a link, I'm not associated with the site in any way.
They have a notice on their site:" Due to the additional bandwidth demand in the past month, we are no longer able to host this site in the same location. The new location is not nearly as fast as before, but we are doing every possible to keep this site available to you."

mbzr4ever · #7 06-25-2006, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

Red flags are going up. An engine swap (Even to convert it over to a 5-turbo) is a weekend job. From pulling the engine out of my TD, swaping cars in the shop, fixing minor things on the engine, getting the flywheel machined, installing the engine, installing the tranny, fill coolant, flush brakes and clutch, wiring a manual glowplug controller, to driving it out the door. All that took me 2 days work (About 18 actual hours) and the only time a second person touched the car was to help bleed the brakes/clutch.

Never allow work in a shop (independent or dealer) without a written/printed job quote. It's a blank check without one.

Ok, so it is possible to use the 5 cylinder? Is there much more of a power difference? Not that I need it here, 4 has been just fine.

He, he, red flags.... that is exactly why I'm posting - just didn't want to think it was just me sniffing something that was starting to smell bad. This board has been a tremendous help.

#8 06-25-2006, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbzr4ever

Ok, so it is possible to use the 5 cylinder? Is there much more of a power difference? Not that I need it here, 4 has been just fine.

Since you have a manual tranny, the hardest part would be finding a shop on the island that will cut the driveshaft and shift linkage 4" shorter for you. I say "will" because most shops can do it, they just won't touch the MB driveshaft because of it's unusual design.

Second would be balancing the 240D flywheel to match the old 5-turbo flywheel. Any racing shop or machine shop should be able to do this without a problem.

There is a major power difference between the two. 240D: 68hp, 300D: 120hp.

HERE is a great thread about a conversion.

mbzr4ever · #9 06-25-2006, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

A good quality rebuilt engine will cost around $5000, plus shipping and labor. A junkyard engine can be found for around $500, plus shipping.

It would probably cost the same to ship the junkyard engine vs the quality rebuilt one, and also installation prices would be the same, I guessing?

In other word, since the "sunk" costs are the same, wouldn't it make more sense to put in the better rebuilt engine for $4500 difference? But for $4500, I think I can buy at least 2 other 240Ds (whole cars including shipping). Just thinking out loud...

Carrameow · #10 07-12-2006, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbzr4ever

First, if this is in the wrong section, sorry and mods please move it to vintage or where it needs to be.

OK, need some opinions from the great wise 240 aficionados on what to do with my 79 240D that "blew up". Consider:

1) The engine had about 300K miles on it when I let a "friend" drive it and he "blew up" the engine. That friend is now long gone, needless to say.

2) The auto mechanic says it would take about $2500 to put in a new engine. Sounds like he doesn't even really want to rebuild it, just wants to get a "new" engine and put it in. It was leaking oil big time. Knowledgeble mechanics to work on mercedes are very limited here.

3) I live in Hawaii, making it difficult to find a salvage engine, or to get one sent (maybe about $500 to ship). Mechanic has a lot of 5 cylinders and wants to put one of those in, I said no, want to keep it like the original. The same 4 cylinder engine around here would be rarer than a hen's tooth.

4) The car had the beginnings of rust, would it be worth saving? The rest of the interior was fine, had just replaced the driver's seat and put on brand new tires. For $2500 couldn't I just buy another 240D without rust on the mainland and ship it over (about $900 to ship)?

5) It is the w123, manual transmission, manual everything that my dad picked up in germany in 1979. I have memories of driving this car in Europe, so, it has a lot of sentimental value to me.

6) Am driving the 300e right now, so it is just sitting and its not like I need to have it fixed right away. Can't decide if this project car is going to be more trouble than its worth.

uhhhhhh, I said Yes three years ago to the same question. After one new engine, one new interior, one new transmission, one fire from a short, rewelding the floor for rust, a whole new interior....I amTIRED but happy...

300SD81 · #11 03-17-2007, 09:52 PM

If it runs, then your motor may be good. Crack the injector lines and crank it, is there fuel? A compression test would be nice.

Bio300TDTdriver · #12 03-17-2007, 09:58 PM

First let me say I’m sorry that has happened to a car that you have such fond memories with. Second I have no experience with 240Ds. I have a newer model.

I just read the post much like Junqueyardjim. It has been 9 months since you first posted and no ones really knows what is wrong with your car.

You say there was a puddle of oil under the car and that the crank is full of oil. That doesn’t make sense to me. So was it oil? If it was oil, did it come from your car? Your “friend” was able to blow up the engine or crack the block on a 2 mile trip to the mechanic? Is that even possible? 240 people please chime in.

If it were my car I would:

1. Determine what my budget was.
2. Find someone to look at the car.

Can you take it off the island to one of the other islands?
Can you hire a mechanic from one of the other islands to come and look at your car where it sits? When I was there inter island flights were not that expensive. Is there anyone else with an older diesel MB on the island you are on? If so can you ask them who does there work? If not can you find someone on another island with a MB diesel. There must be several on the islands.

Try contacting Pacific Biodiesel http://www.biodiesel.com/map.htm. They are located in Oahu and Maui. They may be able to recommend a mechanic to you. I’m sure there are several MB owners using their product.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Chris