i can't seem to find much info. on the 617.912 out of the 300d...is it an all iron engine like the 617.952? just minus the turbo? which engines are all iron as well? is the 5 speed manual out of a 240d compatible with the 617.912? thanks, everyone.

Yes.




The non turbo engines do not have oil cooled pistons, as well as some other internal differences, but they are both iron. The 5 speed will bolt up, however a different adaptor plate on the rear of the engine may be needed.

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1979 240D- 316K miles - VGT Turbo, Intercooler, Stick Shift, Many Other Mods - Daily Driver

1982 300SD - 232K miles - Wife's Daily Driver

1986 560SL - Wife's red speed machine

thanks, bg kast. can you remove the turbo from a 617.952 without compromising the longevity of the engine or running into unforseen problems? i understand that the turbo complicates the mating of a 5 spd. trans. to a 617.952...in theory would the deletion of the turbo then allow a healthy transplant. is the 617.952 in all ways superior to the 617.912 or is it a preference thing? thanks, everyone.

do you have a five speed? IMHO a 5 speed with the 617.952 as well as many other's opinions IIRC is that the 5 spd plus the 617.952 is the best thing since sliced bread

The MB OM616/617 turbo and non turbo are all iron affair, the five speed fits OM 616 240D fine.

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99 Gurkha with OM616 IDI turbo

2015 Gurkha with OM616 DI turbo

2014 Rexton W with OM612 VGT

I don't see why you could not eliminate the turbo. Engine longevity would probably increase as a result.

Why do you think that the turbocharged engine and 5 speed are a bad combination? Several members here (my self included) have mated a turbo 617 engine to a 4 speed manual with no issues. I would think the 5 speed would be even better.

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1979 240D- 316K miles - VGT Turbo, Intercooler, Stick Shift, Many Other Mods - Daily Driver

1982 300SD - 232K miles - Wife's Daily Driver

1986 560SL - Wife's red speed machine

The Turbo engine only came with an automatic on both sides of the pond. You could get a five speed on the non-turbo, but I think that was only on the 2nd and 3rd generations of the W123.

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Doug

1987 300TD x 3
2005 E320CDI

I read someplace that the turbos did not come with a manual transmission due to the power band of the engine. Can anybody confirm this?

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1979 240D- 316K miles - VGT Turbo, Intercooler, Stick Shift, Many Other Mods - Daily Driver

1982 300SD - 232K miles - Wife's Daily Driver

1986 560SL - Wife's red speed machine

You are correct. MB never offered a turbodiesel passenger car with a manual until the C30CDI AMG in the late 90's.

Do you know if it was because of the power band of the turbo engines, or because that the turbo cars were considered to be the top of the line cars, that came fully loaded with all options?

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1979 240D- 316K miles - VGT Turbo, Intercooler, Stick Shift, Many Other Mods - Daily Driver

1982 300SD - 232K miles - Wife's Daily Driver

1986 560SL - Wife's red speed machine

I think it was because these were considered top of the line cars. I would think that a manual transmission would take better advantage of the power band of the engine than an automatic.

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Doug

1987 300TD x 3
2005 E320CDI

The only disadvantage I feel a manual has is the boost drop between shifts. The C30 had a VNT turbo, so it was not an issue with that model.

i was told by a local mb mechanic that the manual transmission couldn't handle (or was incompatible with...) the power band of the 617.952 and that the turbo eats up 5 speed manuals. is the turbo not an integral part of the 617.952 (sorry, i guess i don't really understand the "turbo" of the 617.952 vs. the non-turbo 617.912)? what is the process for removing the turbo from a 617.952? has anyone "un"turboed a 617.952? i am looking for the ultimate in gas mileage and longevity (reliability) from a diesel manual with a top speed of 80+. thanks for all the information on the past transplantations and modifications...successful experiments and projects are the best examples, sometimes.

I don't see why you couldn't just put an exhaust and intake manifold off of a NA 617 engine in place of the turbo manifolds. I'm skeptical of your mechanics claims that the 617 turbo will eat a 5 speed tranny. Like I said earlier several members of this board are using a 4 speed mated to the turbo engine with no issues. The 5 speed is quite rare in this country, so there are not as many people using it with the turbo engine, but I do not see why it would be any different than the 4 speed.

Where are you located?

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1979 240D- 316K miles - VGT Turbo, Intercooler, Stick Shift, Many Other Mods - Daily Driver

1982 300SD - 232K miles - Wife's Daily Driver

1986 560SL - Wife's red speed machine

bgkast: i am in west palm beach, florida. i do not own a benz diesel, yet. i have researched exhaustively trying to figure out which engine/trans. combo would be best for me. i am still a college student and i need whatever vehicle i buy to be ultra reliable and just as economical. i have read so many good things about the 617.952 engine that i feel it has to be the right engine for me...but, i despise automatic transmissions. are there any real differences in performance between the 4 spd. trans. vs. the 5 spd. trans. (fuel economy, top speed, acceleration...)? thanks, again...