I discovered this on the way home last night. My car (1983 300D turbo) does it on different streets and at different speeds. It even seems to be doing it as I go around curves (although it's harder to tell then).

Does anyone know what else I should look at, besides the rubber in the rear suspension, for the cause? I noticed this morning that my 1984 Volvo 240DL also does it a bit, so could it just be a consequence of rear wheel drive?

The folks following me last night probably thought I was a crazy driver or worse . Was a pretty good cure for tailgaters, just not one I care to have anymore.


History:
I've been slowly working my way through the steering problems on my car. The symptoms are that the car drifts to the right a little and the steering feels a little loose. Not enough that it feels like it is pulling, more like just enough that I have to compensate by turning the wheel to the left enough to remove the slack in order to keep it going straight.

I adjusted the steering box until it has about the 1 in of play (it had tons more when I got the car -- somebody adjusted the screw in the wrong direction). I replaced both upper control arms because I found play in the passenger side ball joint. I replaced the idler arm journal bearing because it too had play. After that, it drove great for about 50 miles.. steering was off, but was tight. Then it got worse again, the driftiness and looseness came back. Last night I noticed the left/right acceleration-related pull. I have yet to get the car aligned -- it was next on my list of things to have checked.

The tire pressure is spot on (I keep checking it thinking maybe they've lost air and are now the cause of the problems). The outside edge of front passenger tire is practically bald, but it always looked like it might have a slight outward camber to it until after the UCA replacement. I wanted to fix the looseness or rule out all other possibilities before buying new tires.

__________________
'83 300DTurbo http://badges.fuelly.com/images/smallsig-us/318559.png

Broadband: more lies faster.

Check for play everywhere, guide rod bushings, UCA and LCA bushings, rear bushings, etc.

__________________
RRGrassi


70's Southern Pacific #5608 Fairmont A-4 MOW car

13 VW JSW 2.0 TDI 193K, Tuned with DPF and EGR Delete.

99 W210 E300 Turbo Diesel, chipped, DPF/Converter Delete. Still needs EGR Delete, 232K

90 Dodge D250 5.9 Cummins/5 speed. 400K

Gone and still missed...1982 w123 300D, 1991 w124 300D

On a Benz, the problem you describe is almost directly attributable to a bad subframe bushing...probably the left one.

__________________
Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

I would perhaps be quite suspicious if the car drove fine for fifty miles and reverted to it's former ways.. Alignment problems could contribute to some of your problem as well. Either way I would get this car up on a hoist and check out alll suspension components. Some with a pry bar if indicated.
You mught check your upper sway bar mounts, bushings etc. before the hoist work. Use a little pressure to make sure everything is solid. Also make sure no suspension point is semi mobile because of invisible rust hidden under the undercoat. Those guide rod mount points should be really solid. Your initial description would make me check the rear end area as carefully as the front. Something is probably moving too much under pressure. Use a pry bar. R.Leo is mentioning the type of thing to look for that is bad if not the actual item.

Sounds like a half shaft issue to me. When acceleration forces are applied to one side only, will cause a "steering" condition to occur. Checking all bushings a good idea.

__________________
83 SD

84 CD

Thanks. That's what my reasoning tells me too. It is appreciated to have confirmation

I'm not sure I follow. Are you suggesting that only one rear tire is getting torque/drag from the engine? Or that it is uneven due to a differential problem? Or is there some other half shaft type problem you're thinking of?

What should I check/What kinds of things should I look for?

Yeah, you and me both Barry,.. I'm very suspicious of the change after a few miles The car creaks in the back as I jack up the front to work on it. I hadn't gotten to looking into why just yet. Now I think of it, its probably related :doh: (where's the simpson doh smilie when you need it?).

I only checked one sway bar mount on the front.. it was OK. I'll check the other on the front and the rears too. Thanks.

Invisible rust.. now that would really suck. I'll keep an eye out for that too, but with the way things are moving, it'd probably already be a rusty hole. Fortunately, of the stuff I've checked on the front, all is good on that account. Keeping my fingers crossed the rest will be fine too.


Thanks all for your suggestions. I'll report back here after I check it out.

__________________
'83 300DTurbo http://badges.fuelly.com/images/smallsig-us/318559.png

Broadband: more lies faster.

Rear wheel allignment too, thats something alot of shops forget.

I don't think the rear suspension is adjustable on a w123. Maybe you mean thrust angle?

__________________
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7271/7...144c3fc1dc.jpg

Can't be done on a 123 or 126.

__________________
Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

[quote=patbob;1415030]


I'm not sure I follow. Are you suggesting that only one rear tire is getting torque/drag from the engine? Or that it is uneven due to a differential problem? Or is there some other half shaft type problem you're thinking of?

What should I check/What kinds of things should I look for?

Do you hear anything unusual from rear? Sound may be masked by ambient noise. Doubtful it's differential related, as you probably would not have any drive. I am suggesting partial, or no power to only one wheel. How are the conditions of your boots on axle? If you jack up rear, securing with quality jack stands, of course, you should be able to test for failing CV joint. Some rear ends will drive both wheels, start, put in drive, see what happens. With tranny in park, (might as well shut off engine) try to turn wheel. Moving a very little, okay, if you hear, or "feel" anything that sounds like bad news, it probably is. Hope this helps.

__________________
83 SD

84 CD

Well, I managed to check out my car... Found some amazing things, but no real smoking guns as it were.

The only things I could detect that were wrong are:

• The front subframe bushings seemed weak -- I could see movement in both (more on drivers) just by pushing on the wheel. Seems too easy to resist the forces of accelleration so they go on the list.
• The steering damper shock is worn -- it gurgles when I turn the wheels.
• The car has four different brands of tires on it (five if I count the spare). That'll cause wierd problems too. Gotta be some kind of record there. I'm also ashamed to admit I hadn't noticed. Guess I'm the new recipient of the IDIOT award
• The front LCA rubber bearings (both sides) need to be replaced. I can't get any play from them, but the rubber doesn't look in great condition.
• The front, drivers-side tortion bar rubber bearing is worn (passenger side is OK), but I don't think that would cause the problems I'm having.

So, looks like I'm in for:

1. Rear subframe bushing replacement.
2. Steering damper.
3. New set of tires and alignment, where I suspect the rest of my list and maybe more will happen....
4. Front LCA bushings.
5. Front lower ball joints. I can't get any play from these so they may be OK, but as long as the spring is pulled and the LCA off, it's time to do them too.
6. Front tortion bar bearings, although I doubt the extra 3mm of vertical play in the drivers side one could be the cause of my problems.

I'll drop by this thread and report back as I get the work done in case anyone is interested in what it ends up taking to correct the problem.

No matter how I slice it, this is still way cheaper than car payments

__________________
'83 300DTurbo http://badges.fuelly.com/images/smallsig-us/318559.png

Broadband: more lies faster.

I would start with #1, before you spend tons of money unnecessarily. I had the exact same problem with my wagon, new rear subframe bushings fixed the problem.

__________________
Peter
1985 300TD 4-speed 212K
1992 400E 343K
2001 E320 72K

"She go left when I accelerate and right when I coast..."

I used to date a girl in high school a lot like that....

Patbob,

Thanks for telling this saga. It sounds like I'm having a lot of the same symptoms... Follow ruts, bounces over cracks in the road, drifts over the road camber. I also have a fair amount of "play" in the wheel, but I don't think its in the steering column itself. Front tires are excessivly worn on the outer part of the tread (alignment?). The only thing I have done at this point is make sure the air pressure is correct.

So, which one or two of your fixes do you think had the most impact? Shocks, alignment? Also like to hear if the new tires helped!

__________________
Obiwanrazzy
1985 300D 267k and hemorrhaging...

The short is that I've now got new tires and they helped -- I don't get anymore left/right effects. However, one of the original problems (darts with ruts) still remains. This has been frustrating since I get to experience wihat correct handling feels like for a little while before it goes bad again -- I feel it, I like it, I want it permanently.

The new (matched) tires helped tons. I went with Goodyear Assurance TripelTred's in a 195/70 size, in case anyone is interested. All the previous work has also enabled me to narrow down the rut-darting problem to being solely with the passenger front wheel -- no other wheel causes the darting behavior.

At this point, there's really only a few things left it could be:

1. Wheel bearings
2. Lower ball joint
3. Lower control arm bushings
4. "Break" ball joint (the one mounted just under the passenger's feet)
5. "Break" bushings (where the tube mounts to the LCA)
6. Spring or spring pads (?)

Symptom: car darts to left or right when the front pass tire goes over a sharp-edged rut with the edge nearly parallel to travel direction. Jack the car up for a while and problem disappears. Problem gradually reappears over about 100 miles (accumulated over several trips). There is no associated steering pull I can tell, but rolling friction seems higher when the problem returns.

I'm still thinking LCA bushing or lower ball joint as none of the rest seem like they would have such a long delay in effect nor an effect without related steering pull.

Interstingly, and probably related, is that the upper ball joint on that side had radial wear, but only in the direction perpendicular to the side of the car. I couldn't tell that until I cut it open, but I did, so I know. I'm betting that that wear pattern is matched by a similar movement in the lower side of the wheel somewhere. I checked the lower ball joint last night and couldn't detect any play in any direction. I need to check the LCA bushing this weekend. My indie pretty much dismissed that bushing because "there wasn't any rust falling out of it", so maybe that's not it either.

We'll see.


TomW (check the rear sway bar links):
Thanks for the suggestion. I haven't looked at the rear sway bar links yet (keep meaning to), but the mechanic didn't find them bad and, well, things are much better now. The back end seems totally fine now, its just this front pass wheel problem. I'll check them at some point, but suspect they may be OK enough.

RLeo (ideal 1/4 mile tracker):
Not anymore. The car no longer pulls post alignment and with four equal-sized tires on it, it wants to go straight.

obiwanrazzy:
Nice to hear my saga is helping someone out there As for the "single" thing that made the most difference, it was having the indie replace the tie rods, drag link and shocks, and doing an alignment. New tires was the next bigest change -- no more mushy handling and wierd wandering. However, everything I'd done till then got done slowly enough that I was able to feel the (sometimes slight) improvement in handling between each item. In other words, they all helped, and I doubt starting with the tie rods/drag link/shocks/alignment or the tires would have made as much of a difference without all the other fixes first.

I started by checking tire pressure (but not size and brand/model). When that didn't help, I jacked up the front end and checking for visible play in anything. It sounds like that's probably the next thing for you to do -- no sense getting an alignment on worn suspension, and new tires on a bad alignment is a waste of good rubber.

__________________
'83 300DTurbo http://badges.fuelly.com/images/smallsig-us/318559.png

Broadband: more lies faster.