Scott,
I like you car. I have one like it except mine has European lights. But please get it out of the grape patch before the birds do their stuff to it.
Bill Lewallen(no additives)Lexington,Ky.
Home of The Rolex Three Day Event...

Hi guys just thought I would chime in here for good or bad.I have now a 300sd(84) But just let go of an 97 vw passsat with 112k miles.I used at/f in it over the last four years and never had a problem with turbos injectors or my fuel pump.We own a excavation company and all our equipment :backhoes akermans and bulldozers run fine and we added atf to there fuel on a reg basis.The equipent fires rite over in the winter and we use fuel adds to them (heavy in the winter) nothing seems to bother them.The passat sold for 12k and past a blazing inspection at the dealer no problems 46.0 miles to the gallon at 112k so I think it's a matter of personal pref.ATf does most of its work before it gets burned right? the final part of it getting burned is minor it's what it does on it's way to being burned.Also with the stuff they mix in the fuel now adays in tanks and trucks you guy's sound as if the fuel was distilled from a lab envrioment.Burn it it if makes you feel good.

ATF is not a fuel additive, and shouldn't be used as one. You may think that it's not doing any harm, but the effect is accumulative. It might seem to work fine, but the long term effect will be considerably shortened engine life, and added pollutants (including metals) put into the atmosphere by burning a substance that isn't meant to be combustible. Read some MSDS' on ATF, and see the precautions for fire fighting personnel that are listed, including specialized breathing apparatus requirements.

I've even had experts at diesel fuel pump and injection system rebuilders tell me that the ATF does considerable more harm than you can imagine. In fact, when I was calling around asking about this practice of adding ATF to fuel systems, one of my questions was to ask how many people were the experts aware of that were doing it. One shop in Texas told me that they knew everyone who was doing it in their local area, because those were the people who were bringing their systems in for rebuilds.

And, for those people who think that it works just fine in my diesel, so I'll use it in my gasoline fueled car, the use of ATF as a fuel additive in that instance will simply destroy your catalytic converter(s)...

Again, use only recognized fuel system additives that are specifically formulated for the job they are supposed to do.

__________________

Scott Longston
Northern California Wine Country...
"Turbos whistle, grapes wine..."

Thanks Pete. As you mentioned in your post, my intent was not what I could accomplish with burning ATF but rather what I could accomplish prior to burning it. Much like carburetor cleaners sprayed down carbs to clean venturies and throttle bodies; what is accomplished prior to burn is the reason for the procedure. Yes the cleaners are not a desirable fuel but the resultant cleaning out weighs the burn factors when used prudently. Enough of this needless defense, the process stands of it's own merit. I did do a great deal of reading both here and else where on this topic and I thank all those who pointed various directions for my search.

While reading the various posts I found both reason to search further and in more depth on the burning of other materials in a diesel engine as well as reason to not fuel a fire I inadvertently have started here. I am not, and was not, interested in ruining my engine or anyone else's engine in illogical self destructive procedures. If anyone is interested in hearing what I found as a result of my quest, feel free to e-mail me and I will forward my steps and the results. Self preservation tells me that posting it on this medium will result in a severe flaming of my hinie which I don't need.

In case any of those ready to flame me are still reading this I will further state I am not a proponent of adding ATF to fuel as a maintenance additive. I am not sure of the resultant long term effects of this on seals or other components from the tank filler to the air exiting the exhaust pipe, nor am I interested in researching it. I have ordered a supply of Red Line 85+ as I believe this is a good maintenance additive. I have just requested MSDS sheets on this product as I may find it interesting reading.


Sincerely

Rick

Yes, and no. Proper fuel system additives will work BOTH before, and during the combustion process. The problem with ATF and carb spray is that the injection of these products into the combustion chamber is not good for the cylinders, pistons, rings, valves, etc. In fact, ATF will dramatically cause damage to exhaust valves over time, and carb spray removes the top end lubrication and can cause damage to piston rings and cylinder walls. The quick fix of adding ATF or using a carburetor cleaner spray without removing the carburetor has more negative effect than positive, and is really just someone being cheap and lazy.

Rick, this is not a fire you started, as you can see by this issue being discussed before. And you can take my word for it, this is a very old and misunderstood topic in the automotive world at large. We should all feel challenged to seek the facts on this, or any other matter, and dispell the myths and old wives tales once and for all. And I for one, applaud your interest in finding the facts, and your conscientious concern about providing information that won't end up being harmful to your own, or someone else's engine. It's a concern that motivates me to take the time to do research and try to provide as fctual of information as I can. However, I feel strongly that you shouldn't think that your opinion needs to be constrained to email, or that posting here will ever result in severe flaming. We don't do flaming here. We discuss, may strongly disagree, and that may lead to lengthy debate and rebuttal, but everyone here is entitled to express their opinion in the interest of educating themselves and the membership. I only have a problem restraining myself when someone hasn't done their homework on a given subject, or bases their opinion on heresay. Please, I am here to seek the truth and hard facts, not to be "Mr. Right".

If someone gets offended, or chooses to be abusive, then it's time to "take it outside" and go to email. And if anyone here, in the interest of their personal privacy, hasn't posted a link to an email address, then I would remind them that there are numerous free email sites on the internet, and you can set one up just to use for MercedesShop correspondence. I highly recommend it. I have exchanged information and opinion off of the forums with several of the members here, and most of those communications were absolutely priceless...

So Rick, what did you say that email address was? You don't have a link available...



[Edited by longston on 06-17-2001 at 04:06 PM]

__________________

Scott Longston
Northern California Wine Country...
"Turbos whistle, grapes wine..."

Well Scott, at least on one point I can agree . I did neglect to leave my e-mail address posted. In an attempt to right said wrong, here is my address:

icesailr@netacc.net

Rick