has anyone ever blown up a 617 engine? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

klataklatacoupe · #1 08-06-2007, 05:42 PM

i hav a 300cd-t w/ a 617 motor. i drive my car very hard on a regular basis. it has over 300k on it and seems to take the "abuse" just fine. i was wondeing if anyone has ever blown a head gasket or spun a rod bearing. if so, under what conditions? (i.e. overheated, out of oil,etc.)

Brian Carlton · #2 08-06-2007, 05:47 PM

You can drive it as hard as you wish. It won't blow a head gasket due to your driving habits and it won't spin a bearing either.

Head gaskets wear out with time.........not much you can do about it.

You will cause a bit more ring and groove wear with the heavier combustion loads.........how much more is uncertain.

The engine is very heavy compared to it's power output..........there's a lot of margin there for almost unlimited high power operation.

Personally, I think you can drive it as hard as you wish, but, that doesn't mean you can rev it to 4400 on an unlimited basis. If you keep the rpm's down below 3500, it will likely last until a chain or a guide lets go. Very few people actually wear these engines completely out.........usually a peripheral takes them out when they get old.

andersbenz · #3 08-07-2007, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

"... it won't spin a bearing either."

In February, 1992 I purchased a 1984 300D with 108,000 miles from Autowerkes in Hampton Falls, NH.

In May of 1992 I was driving home with a coworker from Boston to Manchester, NH when a series of loud noises started banging under the hood.

Long story short, the engine spun a bearing. The oil had been changed every 3000 mile since I had purchased it (two oil changes). It had the maintenance books stamped at regular intervals. I checked the oil level at every fill up. MB of North America said tuff *****.

Autowerkes installed a used engine for $2,100 that was still running strong when I sold the car three years and 140,000 miles later.

Brian Carlton · #4 08-07-2007, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andersbenz

In February, 1992 I purchased a 1984 300D with 108,000 miles from Autowerkes in Hampton Falls, NH.

In May of 1992 I was driving home with a coworker from Boston to Manchester, NH when a series of loud noises started banging under the hood.

Long story short, the engine spun a bearing. The oil had been changed every 3000 mile since I had purchased it (two oil changes). It had the maintenance books stamped at regular intervals. I checked the oil level at every fill up. MB of North America said tuff *****.

Autowerkes installed a used engine for $2,100 that was still running strong when I sold the car three years and 140,000 miles later.

Do you attribute your hard driving habits to the cause of the spun bearing?

If so, where's the data to support the conclusion?

I think that it's more likely that the bearing was defective from the factory, or was damaged by a PO due to lack of oil for a brief period.

andersbenz · #5 08-07-2007, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

Do you attribute your hard driving habits to the cause of the spun bearing?

If so, where's the data to support the conclusion?

I think that it's more likely that the bearing was defective from the factory, or was damaged by a PO due to lack of oil for a brief period.

Brian,

I do not attribute my driving habits to the spun bearing. Most of the driving was highway at 65-70 MPH.

Just a frustrating experience and a big "welcome to the moneypit club".

Brian Carlton · #6 08-07-2007, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andersbenz

Brian,

I do not attribute my driving habits to the spun bearing. Most of the driving was highway at 65-70 MPH.

Just a frustrating experience and a big "welcome to the moneypit club".

Yes, that was my contention in the original post. Driving the vehicle hard won't cause a spun bearing..........and driving it normally certainly won't cause a spun bearing. These things happen for unknown causes.........but, driving style isn't one of them.

I know all about the moneypit club. I'm a charter member.

klataklatacoupe · #7 08-06-2007, 05:54 PM

thats what i figured. thanks 4 the info. i just wanted to make sure i wasn't hurting my car. i like it a lot.

#8 08-06-2007, 11:43 PM

For what it's worth, my 83 300SD has 2 positions for the throttle.....on and off. I run this thing in the 3500 to 4000 rpm range almost daily and routinely put 1,000 miles per week on her. Currently it has just over 337,000 miles. I run the s**t out of it, I'm sure it will fail someday but they are cheap to fix and replace. Just keep the oil changed every 3,000 or so, adjust the valves once a year or so, add whatever diesel injector clean is on sale every few thousand miles or so and keep the throttle hammered.

Oh yea....this will probably piss a few people off but who cares!! As far as oil and filters go buy whatever is on sale at walmart or local parts house. As long as it is 15-40 and diesel rated IT DOES NOT MATTER NO MATTER WHO TELLS YOU DIFFERENTLY. Oil is oil is oil is oil, prove there is one superior to another and you will be a VERY wealthy man. I say show me one person who has had a failure due to "inferior" oil and can prove it was the oil.

Thats my rant and 2 cents worth............let the remarks begin.

79300sdtd · #9 08-06-2007, 11:46 PM

i killed one... but the timing chain broke.

i believe it is like brian says. i think a guide failed then broke the chain.

Brian Carlton · #10 08-06-2007, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel Head

Oh yea....this will probably piss a few people off but who cares!! As far as oil and filters go buy whatever is on sale at walmart or local parts house. As long as it is 15-40 and diesel rated IT DOES NOT MATTER NO MATTER WHO TELLS YOU DIFFERENTLY. Oil is oil is oil is oil, prove there is one superior to another and you will be a VERY wealthy man. I say show me one person who has had a failure due to "inferior" oil and can prove it was the oil.

Thats my rant and 2 cents worth............let the remarks begin.

There's quite a bit of evidence that certain oils will allow you to run them longer and the resulting wear metals will be less than other oils.

If you are a person who changes oil at 3K religiously, I'd agree that any diesel rated oil will do just fine for you.

You'll never have a "failure" due to "inferior" oil. The only possible outcome is increased wear..........a very difficult task to prove.

BTW, what "inferior" diesel rated oil do you use?

funola · #11 08-07-2007, 10:33 AM

What is that Wlamart brand of 15W40 in the blue container? Who makes it for them? Is that inferior oil?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

There's quite a bit of evidence that certain oils will allow you to run them longer and the resulting wear metals will be less than other oils.

If you are a person who changes oil at 3K religiously, I'd agree that any diesel rated oil will do just fine for you.

You'll never have a "failure" due to "inferior" oil. The only possible outcome is increased wear..........a very difficult task to prove.

BTW, what "inferior" diesel rated oil do you use?

LUVMBDiesels · #12 08-07-2007, 11:12 AM

I bought the car with about 104K on it. I changed the oil every month with Rotella 15w40 dino (about 3200 miles) I was going down the Thruway at about 75mph when it began knocking and shaking (145K miles). Had it towed home. Pulled the engine and put in a 1982 671.952 out of a 300D ($500). I use Rotella 5W40 synthetic in this engine as Mobil 1 is hard to get around here.

I have been meaning to get into the original engine and see what if anything broke. It still ran, but without any power and made lots of nice black smoke

It did not loose any oil so nothing punched through. The block and pan are intact looking at it.

#13 08-07-2007, 12:03 AM

Actually, I agree with Diesel Head regarding oil. If you are going to change your oil every 3000 miles any diesel rated oil of the correct weight will be adequate. The main advantage of good synthetic oil is longer oil change intervals (I go about 5000 miles) and the availability of 5W40 which provides easier cold weather starting and better cold lubrication.

No one is going to prove an engine failure due to inferior oil, any effects will be subtle and may show up after many miles (maybe more timing change stretch or shorter bearing life). Certainly, "running the s**t out of it" will affect the engine life more than the quality of the oil. If you abuse it long enough, you will eventually have a non-oil related failure anyway.

However, oil is very cheap and driving around at 4000 rpm is pointless.

#14 08-07-2007, 12:08 AM

Regarding the original question, I came close to trashing mine by having debris from a broken vacuum pump get into the timing chain. Fortunately, the chain did not completely fail, but it was an expensive mess.

RichC · #15 08-07-2007, 07:35 AM

I have used my 81 300D like a truck.
Pulling a trailer with a Camaro on it across two states.
Pulling a 82 300SD across town.
Taking stuff to the dump, etc, etc...

And I have put a lot of hard, fast miles on it.
Especially right after I bought it.
I wanted it to blow sooner rather than later when I had a bunch of money in it.

The car actually liked the abuse.
It seems to like a good hard Italian tune up.

Somewhere around 300,000 miles now, and she still sounds great.
Except for that loose A/C belt.
Need to fix that today.

Have Fun
RichC