Tell me about the non turbo W123...
 

Right now there is a non turbo W123 for sale in my neighborhood, and it's in great shape, and it also is very clean.

However, I have a few questions:

1) Other than power (88 hp vs 120 hp), what are the main differences between the two?

Here is what I know:

1) HVAC system is worse on the older cars, with the dreaded servo that usually has sellers saying "it just needs a recharge" when it's really more than that.

2) NA W123s are cheaper usually than Turbo models.

3) What is a realistic expectation for fuel economy? Mid-high 20s combined?

4) Is the transmission a 3 or 4 speed automatic?

5) What should I look for other than the usual rust, vacuum leaks, etc?

http://i18.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/b0/51/917f_3.JPG

http://i5.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/af/20/cc7a_1.JPG

http://www.1motormart.com/gallery/77mb01.jpghttp://i20.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/af/20/cb57_1.JPG

I have a 300SD (turbocharged and significantly heavier) and I get mid to high 20's with combined city/hwy driving. It all depends on driving style, driving conditions and the condition of the car. That said, I'd expect above 25mpg and up into the low thirties as long as the motor has been maintained properly. How much are the sellers asking? You and I both know this holds true for VW's and it is cerainly true here: in the words of another poster "A cheap MB is an expensive MB." Also, read up on "flex discs" and the failure of said parts. Look for the pictorial on dieselgiant's page and you'll see just how catastrophic it can be. Finally, green coolant is bad and shows that someone didn't know/care about good MB maintenance procedures. I'm sure others can tell you more. Potential problems aside, It's a nice looking vehical on the outside and could probably be very nice on the inside with a good cleaning. BTW- That isn't a puddle/water stain on the floor, is it? Make sure you get under that thing and tap for soft spots.

Well ive had a 1981 240d for 2 years now, these are good cars. the engine is a 4 cylinder naturally asperated engine with all of its 68 horses glory. with those of us fortunate enough to be blessed with a manual transmission that will cut down the 0-60 times to about 30 seconds, (thats with the ac off mind you with it on its more like 35) now with the automatic transmission add 5,10 seconds (forget about having the ac on with an automatic transmission you would have a better chance at pushing it) the engine is basically bullet proof, you take care of it, and it will take care of you. one of the things about the engine though, is its valvetrain is chain driven, so you must check the chain stretch but overall the chains are very durable. last forever. you should try to avoid running it out of fuel, because diesels do not prime themselves if they loose there prime due to a leak in the system, or loss of fuel they will have to re prime themselves by pushing fuel into the lines, basically a primer pump or alot of cranking. NEVER EVER EVER EVER NOT IN YOUR WILDEST DREAMS EVER USE STARTING FLUID OF ANY KIND EVEN IF IT SAYS ITS SAFE FOR DIESELS GOT THAT? if it preignites it can Bend the crank, bend rods throw you into a world of pain. just dont do it. The ac systems on this car are.... problematic at best. allthough if you have the time, the patcientce of a saint and a little money and knowhow you can figure it out and lay in the luxery of automatic climate control. the steering is known to have alot of play in it, just drive it till you cant stand it anymore. you cant really adjust it out when it gets to a certain point. Ah, looks like you have the old style pump. the vaccume pumps on these cars have a very bad history of destroying the engine when they go out, make sure to check yours if you buy it. thats all i can think of... drive the wheels off of it?

My 1980 300D with the AC Servo is truly my favorite car.

It is slow over hills, but great everywhere else.

Mid 20's on fuel.

I replaced the AC servo with aluminum rebuilt and everything works.

I do look forward to a W123 Turbo as one of my future cars,
but this is great.

Easy to work on too.

I pretty much agree with the above posts, but on the steering, the box will respond to adjustment even with 300K on it in my experience. I have had about 30 of these benzes mostly old ones.

Tom W

If you live at high altitude, a turbo model is a far better choice. 4 spd auto with default start in 2nd gear. There's a computerized alternative to the ACC servo available now in addition to the aluminum bodied servos. About $600 I think.

The pics above are at least 3 different cars, maybe 4. First pic has flat topped headrests, engine shot is a blue car, 3rd shot with beautiful paint has the curved headrests, and 4th shot of blue interior hardly ever is in a beige colored MB.
Look for one as clean as pic 3 and be happy. A non-turbo has less power of course, but can have less headaches too. {leaky turbo drain, clogged boost line, turbo in the way, etc....}
I enjoyed my non-turbo wagon, and I would always pic the cleaner, more solid car, turbo or not.
Heck, I love driving my 240's the most, so a NA 5cyl would seem fast......;)
**the high altitude warning has much merit, though**

Just caught that Jimmy. Odd.

I only noticed because I love those curved headrests.......;)
Oh, and the China blue paint I tend to notice more these days for some reason.....

I guess the pics were just for reference purposes.

Actually, non Turbo cars are only rated at 77hp, not 88..As if the 11hp makes much difference, but I felt compelled to respond.

I have two 79 non-turbo 300CD's in my stable. I have been in these cars for years and absolutely love them. I have a few turbo cars, they're really nice, and they go a lot better, that's for sure. All the same though, there are less vac. lines on a non-turbo job, and fuel mileage is mid to high 20's. I think at some point I saw 28mpg on the highway, I-95 on a trip to Florida, from Connecticut a few years back. Of course, I-95 has almost no real hills on it, with the exception of like three, in the Maryland area of which I'd barely consider a hill.

I picked these photos offline of various NA 300Ds. They aren't pictures of the car that I'm looking at directly. Good looking out, though. :)

Are you sure? Everywhere I look it says 88hp.

Yes, I'm sure. Atleast both of my non turbo cars are only 77hp, and every other one I have seen before. I don't remember where exactly I read it, but I believe it was actually in the owner's manuals for the cars. I remember a chart, showing the torque rating, which is actually 85ft.lbs of torque, and 77hp. I don't know where 88hp originally came from, but I have heard that number before here in the forum. Maybe it's something to do with the year. My two non-turbo's are 79's, but if someone has a later,non turbo car it's possible it is 88hp, and a higher toque rating.. If the car you are looking at is a 79, you can pretty much count on 77hp, and 85ft.lbs of torque. All of the car's power, literally comes from the gearing.

A few more questions:

Assuming the A/C is completely shot, what is so awful about this dreded servo I keep hearing about, and how is it different from the later HVAC systems on the Turbo W123s?

Is it difficult to adjust for loose steering?

How does one adjust out hard/lazy shifts in the transmission?

Are the window switches on the earlier W123s with power windows worse than later ones?

Lastly, if we're talking specifically about NA 300Ds (1977-1981 and all years for the occasional grey market car), what years are better or worse than others?

Thanks to all who have replied!

Assuming the A/C is completely shot, what is so awful about this dreded servo I keep hearing about, and how is it different from the later HVAC systems on the Turbo W123s?


--everything's controlled by the servo on the early ones. The servo is highly prone to cracks and leaks in the lower plastic housing


How does one adjust out hard/lazy shifts in the transmission?--vacuum

Are the window switches on the earlier W123s with power windows worse than later ones?-----not to my knowledge

My 240D 77 came with York compressor, at one point in time Mercedes moved away from York and used smaller compressors. The York is designed for V8 engines and will pretty much drain all power from the N/A diesels, for this reason alone I would stay away from any 123 that comes with York compressor.

Vahe
240D 77 350K