Right now there is a non turbo W123 for sale in my neighborhood, and it's in great shape, and it also is very clean.

However, I have a few questions:

1) Other than power (88 hp vs 120 hp), what are the main differences between the two?

Here is what I know:

1) HVAC system is worse on the older cars, with the dreaded servo that usually has sellers saying "it just needs a recharge" when it's really more than that.

2) NA W123s are cheaper usually than Turbo models.

3) What is a realistic expectation for fuel economy? Mid-high 20s combined?

4) Is the transmission a 3 or 4 speed automatic?

5) What should I look for other than the usual rust, vacuum leaks, etc?

I have a 300SD (turbocharged and significantly heavier) and I get mid to high 20's with combined city/hwy driving. It all depends on driving style, driving conditions and the condition of the car. That said, I'd expect above 25mpg and up into the low thirties as long as the motor has been maintained properly. How much are the sellers asking? You and I both know this holds true for VW's and it is cerainly true here: in the words of another poster "A cheap MB is an expensive MB." Also, read up on "flex discs" and the failure of said parts. Look for the pictorial on dieselgiant's page and you'll see just how catastrophic it can be. Finally, green coolant is bad and shows that someone didn't know/care about good MB maintenance procedures. I'm sure others can tell you more. Potential problems aside, It's a nice looking vehical on the outside and could probably be very nice on the inside with a good cleaning. BTW- That isn't a puddle/water stain on the floor, is it? Make sure you get under that thing and tap for soft spots.

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1983 300SD
Rusty, Loud and Proud

Well ive had a 1981 240d for 2 years now, these are good cars. the engine is a 4 cylinder naturally asperated engine with all of its 68 horses glory. with those of us fortunate enough to be blessed with a manual transmission that will cut down the 0-60 times to about 30 seconds, (thats with the ac off mind you with it on its more like 35) now with the automatic transmission add 5,10 seconds (forget about having the ac on with an automatic transmission you would have a better chance at pushing it) the engine is basically bullet proof, you take care of it, and it will take care of you. one of the things about the engine though, is its valvetrain is chain driven, so you must check the chain stretch but overall the chains are very durable. last forever. you should try to avoid running it out of fuel, because diesels do not prime themselves if they loose there prime due to a leak in the system, or loss of fuel they will have to re prime themselves by pushing fuel into the lines, basically a primer pump or alot of cranking. NEVER EVER EVER EVER NOT IN YOUR WILDEST DREAMS EVER USE STARTING FLUID OF ANY KIND EVEN IF IT SAYS ITS SAFE FOR DIESELS GOT THAT? if it preignites it can Bend the crank, bend rods throw you into a world of pain. just dont do it. The ac systems on this car are.... problematic at best. allthough if you have the time, the patcientce of a saint and a little money and knowhow you can figure it out and lay in the luxery of automatic climate control. the steering is known to have alot of play in it, just drive it till you cant stand it anymore. you cant really adjust it out when it gets to a certain point. Ah, looks like you have the old style pump. the vaccume pumps on these cars have a very bad history of destroying the engine when they go out, make sure to check yours if you buy it. thats all i can think of... drive the wheels off of it?

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Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?

As long as they would add one additional commandment for you to keep thy religion to thyself.
George Carlin (Wonder where he is now..)

1981 240d (engine donor 1983 240d) recently rebuilt engine hurray! - No more.. fought a tree and the tree won.

pearl black 1983 240d 4speed (Converted!@$$%) atleast the tranny was rebuilt.

My 1980 300D with the AC Servo is truly my favorite car.

It is slow over hills, but great everywhere else.

Mid 20's on fuel.

I replaced the AC servo with aluminum rebuilt and everything works.

I do look forward to a W123 Turbo as one of my future cars,
but this is great.

Easy to work on too.

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80 300D 340K Owned 30 yrs
83 300SD 440K Owned 9 yrs - Daily Driver 150mi/day
02 Z71 Suburban 117,000
15 Toyota Prius 2600 miles
00 Harley Sportster 24k
09 Yamaha R6
03 Ninja 250

I pretty much agree with the above posts, but on the steering, the box will respond to adjustment even with 300K on it in my experience. I have had about 30 of these benzes mostly old ones.

Tom W

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

If you live at high altitude, a turbo model is a far better choice. 4 spd auto with default start in 2nd gear. There's a computerized alternative to the ACC servo available now in addition to the aluminum bodied servos. About $600 I think.

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

The pics above are at least 3 different cars, maybe 4. First pic has flat topped headrests, engine shot is a blue car, 3rd shot with beautiful paint has the curved headrests, and 4th shot of blue interior hardly ever is in a beige colored MB.
Look for one as clean as pic 3 and be happy. A non-turbo has less power of course, but can have less headaches too. {leaky turbo drain, clogged boost line, turbo in the way, etc....}
I enjoyed my non-turbo wagon, and I would always pic the cleaner, more solid car, turbo or not.
Heck, I love driving my 240's the most, so a NA 5cyl would seem fast......
**the high altitude warning has much merit, though**

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Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John

Just caught that Jimmy. Odd.

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1983 300SD
Rusty, Loud and Proud

I only noticed because I love those curved headrests.......
Oh, and the China blue paint I tend to notice more these days for some reason.....

I guess the pics were just for reference purposes.

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Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John

Actually, non Turbo cars are only rated at 77hp, not 88..As if the 11hp makes much difference, but I felt compelled to respond.

I have two 79 non-turbo 300CD's in my stable. I have been in these cars for years and absolutely love them. I have a few turbo cars, they're really nice, and they go a lot better, that's for sure. All the same though, there are less vac. lines on a non-turbo job, and fuel mileage is mid to high 20's. I think at some point I saw 28mpg on the highway, I-95 on a trip to Florida, from Connecticut a few years back. Of course, I-95 has almost no real hills on it, with the exception of like three, in the Maryland area of which I'd barely consider a hill.

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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

I picked these photos offline of various NA 300Ds. They aren't pictures of the car that I'm looking at directly. Good looking out, though.

Are you sure? Everywhere I look it says 88hp.

Yes, I'm sure. Atleast both of my non turbo cars are only 77hp, and every other one I have seen before. I don't remember where exactly I read it, but I believe it was actually in the owner's manuals for the cars. I remember a chart, showing the torque rating, which is actually 85ft.lbs of torque, and 77hp. I don't know where 88hp originally came from, but I have heard that number before here in the forum. Maybe it's something to do with the year. My two non-turbo's are 79's, but if someone has a later,non turbo car it's possible it is 88hp, and a higher toque rating.. If the car you are looking at is a 79, you can pretty much count on 77hp, and 85ft.lbs of torque. All of the car's power, literally comes from the gearing.

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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

That's a Euro market non-turbo five cylinder engine made after September 1979.

A few more questions:

Assuming the A/C is completely shot, what is so awful about this dreded servo I keep hearing about, and how is it different from the later HVAC systems on the Turbo W123s?

Is it difficult to adjust for loose steering?

How does one adjust out hard/lazy shifts in the transmission?

Are the window switches on the earlier W123s with power windows worse than later ones?

Lastly, if we're talking specifically about NA 300Ds (1977-1981 and all years for the occasional grey market car), what years are better or worse than others?

Thanks to all who have replied!

Assuming the A/C is completely shot, what is so awful about this dreded servo I keep hearing about, and how is it different from the later HVAC systems on the Turbo W123s?


--everything's controlled by the servo on the early ones. The servo is highly prone to cracks and leaks in the lower plastic housing


How does one adjust out hard/lazy shifts in the transmission?--vacuum

Are the window switches on the earlier W123s with power windows worse than later ones?-----not to my knowledge

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13