New inj. nozzles + ALDA adjust = Yippie! - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Diesel Dan · #1 10-21-2007, 09:37 PM

Finally got around to dealing with a few issues I've been having. I was getting some smoke, and rough running when cold, plus it was just a dog off the line.

So I pulled the injectors and had them tested: 4 out of 6 had bad spray patterns. So, bought a new set of nozzles. Then I wrestled with the f---ing ALDA for three nights before I could get the thing off. I ended up screwing a bolt into the vacuum hole to use as leverage. I know, I know, a pretty risky move. But I was fed up! Anyway, there was a fair amount of soot in there, and the vacuum nozzle to the intake manifold was almost completely blocked with soot. While I had the thing off, I backed the screw out 2 turns.

Just got back from an exhillarating test drive! Very peppy off the line, and hardly any smoke when I floor it! Idles smooth as silk. It may be my imagination, but I think it shifts smoother too. Yup, I'm a happy camper!

Thanks to all those forum contributers who gave pictorials/tutorials on removing, cleaning and adjusting the ALDA. That really made a huge difference.

cchkaiban · #2 10-21-2007, 11:18 PM

Where and what brand did you purchase? (injectors)
Congrats...

Diesel Dan · #3 10-22-2007, 12:04 AM

I just got some Bosch nozzles at my local auto parts place. They were made in India, which doesn't make me feel real good about them, but they seem to be working as they should. I thought of getting the Bosios, but I just wanted to get the job done quickly. Patience is not one of my strongest virtues.

Ken300D · #4 10-22-2007, 08:26 AM

I still have a limited supply of Made-in-France Bosch nozzles for the 616/617 engines available. They are pretty hard to get now as most people are forced to go with the Indian Bosch or the Italian Bosio nozzles. My price is $50 each - contact via PM. I'm saving some of them for my own cars but acquired a bunch of them awhile back because I recognized the value and scarcity of real Bosch nozzles. So I have a few more I can part with.

Ken300D

Boise_Wannabee · #5 10-23-2007, 12:59 AM

So friends, why buy injectors instead of just buying the nozzles only?

pawoSD · #6 10-23-2007, 01:14 AM

If you buy just the nozzles then you have to disassemble and replace them yourself (not very easy to do)....or have them rebuilt. If you buy injectors...they're ready to be installed.

Boise_Wannabee · #7 10-23-2007, 01:20 AM

Well then, that explains it. Are they difficult to pull apart and rebuild? Are special tools required?

Thanks.

Diesel Dan · #8 10-23-2007, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boise_Wannabee

Well then, that explains it. Are they difficult to pull apart and rebuild? Are special tools required?

Thanks.

I didn't find it particularly difficult. No special tools required to take them apart. There are only a few parts in there, and as long as you pay attention when you pull them apart, there is only one logical order in which they can go back together.

macdoe · #9 10-26-2007, 04:18 AM

Hello, I am thinking of taking my injectors out to have them tested. I have priced out balance and pop testing @$18 ea. I estimate over $50 ea for new nozzles which I have been told I would likely need. That is $70 per injector for 5 inj. = $350 If I can get new injectors for $52 ea. from the parts store on this site it would be much cheaper according to my math.
My question is this:

#1 do new injectors come fully balance and pop tested with nozzle?(What type of nozzles?).

#2 I have read about special washers for injectors that cannot be substituted with any other material due to stress on this location close to inj, Do the injectors come with these washers and where do they go? Are there different thicknesses of these washers?

#3 What do I torque the injectors to?

#4 Should I or is there any special things that are required of the injector for running WVO, maybe I should do this now if I am planning on WVO later?
I just bought this 1979 300D for a thousand bucks replaced some fuel line and purged air from diesel lines and away it went, but seems to need a lot of work.

Traveling on the highway seems to be reving very high at only 100 kilometers per hour but I don't know as there is no tach.
Hard starter in -10 degree celsius weather unless block heater is plugged in? That is not even cold yet where I live.

I live in Canada and it will be getting colder here soon, I am starting to think this might not be a good car for winters here? Or maybe car is not correct?

I would like to take some pictures of the linkage for you guys to look at because I think someone has robbed the car of a few things, but that has proved difficult as the site says the info is too large to send or something like that?

Car runs O.k other than low on power on the highway? I have changed all the fuel lines I think and checked the fuel strainer in the tank (looked brand new, waste of time) new fuel filters primary and secondary. New air filter, adjusted the valves(ran a bit better), timing chain LOOKS tight.
I am thinking maybe pump timing? I am scare to mess with the pump, should I be?

I am new to diesel powered vehicles but so far very encouraged about what I have been able to do with this car so far, thanks in large part to this site and the diy links category

Thank you very much. 1979 300D

toomany MBZ · #10 10-26-2007, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macdoe

Hello, I am thinking of taking my injectors out to have them tested. I have priced out balance and pop testing @$18 ea. I estimate over $50 ea for new nozzles which I have been told I would likely need. That is $70 per injector for 5 inj. = $350 If I can get new injectors for $52 ea. from the parts store on this site it would be much cheaper according to my math.
My question is this:

#1 do new injectors come fully balance and pop tested with nozzle?(What type of nozzles?). Ask Phil.

#2 I have read about special washers for injectors that cannot be substituted with any other material due to stress on this location close to inj, Do the injectors come with these washers and where do they go? Are there different thicknesses of these washers? I think you're referring to heat shields, they go another name also, escapes me now, washer, maybe.

#3 What do I torque the injectors to? 55 ft. lbs

#4 Should I or is there any special things that are required of the injector for running WVO, maybe I should do this now if I am planning on WVO later?
I just bought this 1979 300D for a thousand bucks replaced some fuel line and purged air from diesel lines and away it went, but seems to need a lot of work. Good luck with that, I avoid it like the plague.

Traveling on the highway seems to be reving very high at only 100 kilometers per hour but I don't know as there is no tach.
Hard starter in -10 degree celsius weather unless block heater is plugged in? That is not even cold yet where I live. Do you have rpm fluctuation? I have only turbos, at 100 k per hour, I tach around 2700 rpm in the SD, different rear gear,I imagine.

I live in Canada and it will be getting colder here soon, I am starting to think this might not be a good car for winters here? Or maybe car is not correct? I would suggest against WVO. Dino, you may want to add some Power Service, white jug, (or equivalent) it has cetane boost, up to 50, over that not much good. It also has anti gelling agents, you'll be fine.

I would like to take some pictures of the linkage for you guys to look at because I think someone has robbed the car of a few things, but that has proved difficult as the site says the info is too large to send or something like that? I'm with you on that, I need to retake pics at a lower resolution. Too stupid to resize. Do you have a Factory Service Manual? They're not too expensive. I'm not familiar with the '79 model year on linkage, or other aspects, for that matter.

Car runs O.k other than low on power on the highway? I have changed all the fuel lines I think and checked the fuel strainer in the tank (looked brand new, waste of time) new fuel filters primary and secondary. New air filter, adjusted the valves(ran a bit better), timing chain LOOKS tight.
I am thinking maybe pump timing? I am scare to mess with the pump, should I be? Have not touched one.

I am new to diesel powered vehicles but so far very encouraged about what I have been able to do with this car so far, thanks in large part to this site and the diy links category WooHoo!

Thank you very much. 1979 300D

I also have found it easy to disassemble the injectors, put it in a vise, and unscrew. You'll need a large wrench, 22mm? Note order of spring and washers, they can be replaced to adjust pressure, I think. The injector itself is a 27mm, or 1 1/16 inch, use a deep socket, being careful around the metal fuel nipples.

Oh, and WELCOME!

Chuffer · #11 10-26-2007, 06:26 AM

When replacing the nozzle and seat you should also spray/pop test them as the new nozzle and seat may change the breaking/opening pressure. If you didn't test them prior to changing the nozzle and seat, your problem may have been a soft spring inside the injector. As stated previously, the opening pressure of each injector is adjusted by changing the thickness of the shim inside the injector.

gsxr · #12 10-26-2007, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macdoe

#1 do new injectors come fully balance and pop tested with nozzle?(What type of nozzles?).

No. Rebuilt/reman injectors will have pop pressures all over the place, usually in a 5-7 bar range. While they may work ok, for optimal performance you'd need to get a set, then have them pressure-matched as close as possible (usually within 2-3 bar from highest to lowest).

Quote:

Originally Posted by macdoe

#2 I have read about special washers for injectors that cannot be substituted with any other material due to stress on this location close to inj, Do the injectors come with these washers and where do they go? Are there different thicknesses of these washers?

These are the heat shields. The new injectors won't include them, you have to buy them separately. They're cheap though, maybe $1 each. There are not different thicknesses, they are a single-use, crush-to-fit type. [/QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by macdoe

#3 What do I torque the injectors to?

Factory spec. See what it says in the manual. And make sure you use the special injector socket, that has clearance inside for the return line nipples.

BTW - you might want to read some of the Bosch training literature here on injector spray pattern, etc - very interesting stuff:
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/Bosch/

Diesel911 · #13 11-14-2007, 02:52 AM

I compiled a price list 4 months ago (check for the current price). These prices were for 82-85 300D turbo rebuilt injector assemblies. There is a core charge on each injector and you will have to pay the shipping to send them. The core carges are usually $17 or more. Some of these same companies also sell new Spray Nozzles which run from around $27-$30.

http://www.alleuropeanautoparts.com $40.74

http://www.mercedes-benz-parts-direct.com/ $42.35

http://www.***************/ $38.45

http://www.importeccatalog.com/ $38.63

I use a Craftsman 1 1/16 inch 12 point extra deep socket to remove and install the injectors.

Ken300D · #14 11-14-2007, 07:52 AM

I believe the WorldPac injectors are rebuilt units with Indian nozzles. Indian nozzles have been discussed here before - there was a pictorial that showed their manufacture quality does not match the OEM injector nozzles. It included magnified pictures of the nozzle surfaces.

Ken300D

C Sean Watts · #15 11-14-2007, 08:34 AM

They are TUV and ISO 9001 compliant. So far NO complaints, 14 good nozzles of 14 tested/used, and pressure shims available in bulk sets. All of these are NEW manufacture.

OK, LONG list - Bookmark or subscribe
I must have played email tag three times across six time zones today alone.
Skip to middle for short, quick answer.
This is from a parts distribution house that supplies to shops in Europe SO....
*NB not an advertisement or guarantee* US dollar to euro rate (dollar now lower than euro) shipping and/or customs (hopefully not) could cause all this to change...I think you get the idea.

Shims Made in Germany. Six different diameters depending on application, HEY there could be some Unimog or MAN drivers out there! (one or two apply to us in this forum) Thicknesses vary by 0.05mm increments and come in about 20 or so different thicknesses. NOT recommended that you lap to thin. You could create asymmetrical loads inside the injector. Shim up or down to bring the set within specified range. (Props to master mechanic Winfried "Vinnie" Dietz)
Price range $3.00 to $3.60

Springs Made in Germany. Sizes vary by application.
price range $3.50 - $4.30

Spacer $5.00 - $7.00

Thrust pin Most made in Germany. Five diameters (similar to shims) vary according to application. Price range $1.60 to $2.65

Nozzles Most made in Germany or of EU origin - BTW "Made in EU" is now legal labeling.(Not limited to) France, Belgium, UK, Italy. Manufacturers include Bosch, Delphi, Kolbenschmidt and Bosio. There have been many updates on nozzle design RE: fuel economy and smoke emission especially OM617 and earlier. However, many catalogs in English still list the old part number DN(O) SD 240 as 'current' while the German ones do refer to the changes.
Types include DLLA, DSLA and DN(0)SD (last one applies to most of us) There are about 50 DN types alone - chances are they'll have what we need. If you specify one brand and/or country of origin, you could be waiting a while.
Price range $19.50 to $35.00. For a CDI injector expect to pay over $300

Right now there is a special on for DN0SD274. VW part no. 068130211d / Bosch part no. 0434250138 These nozzles are $ 19.00 each. I DON'T KNOW how long this is valid. As listed, "Nozzle is not stamped." If we have a part number we know what they'll fit?
If I translated correctly "Also featured Bosch glow plugs 21mm 12V fits all 1.5 to 2.4 VW & Audi" $15.00

Short, quick answer - they have everything you need to assemble a one piece at a time 'a la carte' injector.

BEST WAY TO ORDER in order to speed the whole process...Not by year, make and model please. Be part number/dimension specific. If you only know one ID number, make sure it's the "OM XXX.XXX" number - FULL six digits.

Nozzle
Find the number DN(0) XXXXX The same engine line could have changed in the middle of a production run.

Shim
Please specify the desired diameter and thickness. The six diameters are;
6.80mm (from 1.00mm to 2.00mm thick),
7.25mm (from 1.00mm to 2.00 thick),
8.50mm (from 0.80mm to 2.00mm thick),
9.40mm (from 0.80 to 2.00mm thick),
9.80mm (from 0.05mm to 2.00mm thick)
11.50mm (from 0.05mm to 2.00mm thick)

Remember thicknesses change 0.05mm at a time - that changes pressure by ~3 BAR.

Springs Specify exact height and diameter ALSO what type of nozzle it is matched to.

Thrust pin Specify exact diameter
Sizes are; 6mm, 7.5mm, 8mm, 11mm and 15mm

UPDATE EDIT: SHIPPING
Supply houses are INSISTING on insured shipping for all overseas (incoming to the USA) orders.
As of September '07 cost is averaging 15 Euros (about $20.00) for 5 pounds of weight. I will try by all means to combine as many import shipments as possible and NOT mark up at all. I refuse to "Flea-Bay" the shipping!

My regular email is c_sean_watts@yahoo.com
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