Bio-Diesel OK in new E-320? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

robbin · #1 12-10-2007, 06:02 PM

What is the truth regarding Bio in a 2007 Mercedes Bluetec? Mercedes has only approved a 5% blend provided the bio meets ASTM D6751 & has the necesssary osidation stability )min. 6h, proved with EN14112 method) to prevent damages to the system from deposits and/or corrosion.

Does the biodiesel sold here in Houson meet these criteria?

Is Mercedes being overly conservative? Can you actually run a higher percentage blend? (B-20)

Will running biodiesel adversely affect my engine?

Can mercedes tell when servicing the car whether it has been using biodiesel, and if so, can they tell what percentage blend I have been using.

Just concerned because there are so many unknowns for me.

Thank you for any input you all could give.

#2 12-10-2007, 06:06 PM

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Does the biodiesel sold here in Houson meet these criteria?

Ask. Find a station that sells it and ask them if it meets the standards.

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Is Mercedes being overly conservative?

Yes, for their own protection. BioD in the states varies widely from station to station as there are no concrete quality standards required for it. They set the limit low to protect themselves from a potentially large number of warranty claims from poor fuel quality.

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Can you actually run a higher percentage blend? (B-20)

Yes, if you want to immediately void your warranty.

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Will running biodiesel adversely affect my engine?

Probably not. Willie Nelson had issues with his fuel lines melting with B100.

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Can Mercedes tell when servicing the car whether it has been using biodiesel, and if so, can they tell what percentage blend I have been using.

Yes, they have tests for it. However, they will likely not check unless they have a reason to suspect it's use (Bumper stickers, you say something about it, etc) or a fuel/engine related part has failed. Unfortunately, there are some crooked dealers out there that will "overlook" its use.

It's all up to you and if you want to risk it. Retail B5 is all you can use if you want to keep your warranty, WVO and SVO are completely out of the question.

Hatterasguy · #3 12-10-2007, 06:35 PM

Considering the car is under warranty I would only run what the manual says you can, until it expires. Because if you have a major fuel system problem, and the dealer suspect that you run biodiesel you will be SOL. It wouldn't take much for them to send a sample of your fuel to the lab and see it come back as B20 or B100. Then say by, by to any warranty.

#4 12-10-2007, 06:45 PM

Especially a Bluetec. That filter/cat combo alone runs in the $x,000 range to replace.

Hatterasguy · #5 12-10-2007, 06:49 PM

Replacing whatever makes it a "bluetec" part would be scary!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

greasybenz · #6 12-10-2007, 06:51 PM

You will NOT void your warranty if you run biodiesel. BUT dont expect them to honor a fuel related repair if you have over B5 biodiesel in the tank, most common biodiesel problems with late model diesels is that they dont take very well to bad fuel, whether it be diesel or biodiesel.

Biodiesel on the other hand doesnt have mandated standards, so it can vary in quality. To be 100% sure ask the vendor for the test sheet from their recent batch of biodiesel to see if it meets the ASTM standards. If they cant provide you one then run the fuel at your own risk.

Can they test your tank for the amount of biodiesel in your tank? YES! but its an expensive test, dealers wont waste their money on a $500 test at every oil change just to screw with you. But if you happen to come in with a bad injection pump and they suspect biodiesel was the culprit they will have the test done to see if your over the B5 limit.

But you can always siphon out the bad fuel fill it up with diesel and they will have to honor your repair

#7 12-10-2007, 06:55 PM

I wouldn't do it; too high a risk/reward ratio.

Hatterasguy · #8 12-10-2007, 06:56 PM

Yeah but on a bluetec the "fuel system" would include some really expensive parts. Like the CDI system, the emissions system, exhuast. If you run B100 fry your injectors and cook the cats, MB is going to say your SOL. Thats probably a $6k+ bill on one of these. Or what if you cook the engine! OMFG bend over I bet a new dealer installed engine is $15k or more!

But is saving the world in a $60k leather and rare wood lined luxury car is that important, whats a couple of bucks.

TMAllison · #9 12-10-2007, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I wouldn't do it; too high a risk/reward ratio.

Agreed. Wait for your warranty to run out and in the mean time let others be the guinea pig to determine exactly what % that engine can run w/o problems.

Don M · #10 12-10-2007, 08:01 PM

I have repaired more Common Rail injectors damaged from bio diesel use that its no longer funny. Follow the 5% max and it will be fine. Anything over that and you are asking for destruction.

thesst · #11 12-10-2007, 08:18 PM

Why would you want to run bio in a 2007 Bluetec? Just curious.

greasybenz · #12 12-10-2007, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don M

I have repaired more Common Rail injectors damaged from bio diesel use that its no longer funny. Follow the 5% max and it will be fine. Anything over that and you are asking for destruction.

Can you explain what had happen to the injectors from the biodiesel? Was it a biodiesel quality problem?

Because you do know that biodiesel is allowed at 100% in germany becaue of the mandated quality control.

lietuviai · #13 12-10-2007, 09:01 PM

I wonder if he already ran the biodiesel and is now experiencing some serious issues and is just hiding by asking what if or can I?

robbin · #14 12-10-2007, 10:32 PM

No, I have not experienced any problems whatsoever, and I don't want to. I ran approximately a 20% blend over the past 1000 miles. I have just over 9200 miles on my vehicle. The owner of the biodiesel station stated that his fuel met all the requirements that mercedes listed as their fuel standard requirements for biodiesel, and that it was a soy based diesel. He has been selling quite a bit of fuel over the past few years.

But he also stated that all vehicles sold in the US back to 19.., (I don't remeber what year exactly, but it was a few years back) would not have a problem burning biodiesel. And he said that if I had a vehicle with a lot of miles on it that it is not uncommon for some of the contaminats that have built up to be loosened up by the biodiesel. He went on to say what was necessary in that situation, but it did not apply to me.

He also stated that I could run any blend up to straight biodiesel without any problems.

I was not comfortable with this, but I did run a blend that was just under 20%.

So the reason I am here is to try and get the straight scoop. Mercedes says up to 5%. I guess I could continue to use a blend like that, but now I am spooked, and I don't know if will use any biodiesel at all from this point forward.

Someone asked, "why I wanted to run Biodiesel in a new car in the first place?", and the answer is as follows, and my responce is with reference to what I understand to be true of commercially manufactured biodiesel that meets Mercedes requirements:

If I am not mistaken biodiesel, it is supposed to have greater lubricity which would result in less wear and a longer lasting engine. In addition.... a cleaner enginge......and quite honestly probably least important...the environment. But I do honestly have concerns with that, and I wold like to do my part, however small.

TMAllison · #15 12-10-2007, 10:40 PM

Do your part and burn a B5 blend as MB suggests is acceptable.

As little as B2 provide lots of additional lubrication although it should not be needed as the engine was designed to run on ULSD.

If you are still interested in the Bio question, join a European forum and read members exppiriences there. THey have had your engine for a couple of years now and so have more expirience with it.