Random misfire/no start om617

[ashedd]

So my TD has always ran very well. About three weeks ago the exhaust fell off and it's been sitting, I have driven it once since. Today I needed to drive the TD because a drunk hit my 400e while parked in front of my house.

Start up was fine, low idle/small throttle input through the neighborhood(it's very loud) was fine. Once I got out on main road's it was fine. I came to a stop light and noticed a rough idle. By the time I got to my destination, about 5 miles later, I was having to shift to neutral and hold about 1500 rpm at the lights.

Once I got done with work, about 6 hours later, my TD would not start. I got it to start with heavy cranking and fast pumping of the throttle. Blue smoke was belching out of the remaining exhaust. Glow function seemed to work fine. Once started I had to hold 3000 rpm until it sorta smoothed out and would stay running. The entire 6ish mile trip home I had to keep the rpm above 2500-3000 and shift to neutral at lights with 1500 rpm.

Once home I swapped the primary filter with no difference. Went to the store(took the 300d) to get a secondary and have not been able to get it to start since. I pulled the air filter off, no difference. Everything looks normal under the hood. Last time I checked(about 1.5 years ago) the timing stretch was 1.5*. Turbo is spinning freely. Once it was running it smoothed out above 3000 rpm. No noticeable smoke once running.

Seems like it "jumped time", but I dont know how. Again, my TD always ran very very well.

Any ideas?

[ashedd]

FYI..

My 400E was hit by a drunk last night, body damage and pushed front drivers wheel aft into the body. Looks totaled to me. Pretty effed up.

300D- has a diff issue and is technically inop.

300SD- was removed from service last summer. No insurance or plate OR radiator installed.

300TD- who know's???

The 400E has been my DD. I am out of cars to drive.

[babyjames]

Turned to jelly in the tank? Clogged strainer? Bad lift pump? Try an alternate fuel source. Like a can of Diesel Purge.

Jay.

[ashedd]

I thought the fuel might be suspect but it's winter blend, it's been over freezing for over a week, the last time I put fuel in it I added anti-gel stuff cause it was really cold.

Strainer.. I dread messing with that.

I figured I would: try an alternate fuel source, pull the valve cover and check the timing marks, perhaps try to set IP timing. But I just can't imagine any of the timing could just get mess up out of the blue.

I hope there was not some sorta timing chain/tensioner failure. I only assume that with 1.5* of stretch that the chain was replaced at some point. I think the car has 303K on it now.

The only "strange" thing I did today was drive through a puddle in my ally and the broken exhaust sounded like it went under water. My TD sounded like a boat for the 1/2 a sec it took to get through the puddle.

[babyjames]

Sounds like it might be sucking air. Did you use the hand primer when you changed either of the filters? If you still have the "screw top" primer, change it. When they go bad, they allow air into the fuel system.

If it were my car, I'd make absolutely sure I had bubble-free fuel at the injectors before doing anything else.

Jay.

[ashedd]

The primer pump is a screw type, slightly different than my SD but both screw types. This primer does not feel like it even pumps any fuel. On my SD you can feel the fuel being pumped, even if it leaks out the bottom of the pump.

So is the only way to test the primer to replace it?

[babyjames]

If it doesn't feel like it is pushing any fuel, it probably isn't! Watch the primary filter while pumping. The fuel should "slosh" a bit.

Unscrew the top of your pump and crank the engine over. Leaking fuel?

Regardless, get the newer style pump and pop it on there. From memory a 15/16" crowfoot is your best friend for removal, and a 17mm(?) to install the updated part.

Jay.

[barry123400]

The primer pump will not develop any resistance either if the relief valve is stuck open. Close the relief valve line off to check this.

If no pressure is developing against your finger pressure then there is either no fuel or the primer pump is shot internally. Of course if you develop resitance the relief valve is open when it should not be.

[tangofox007]

Originally Posted by barry123400

The primer pump will not develop any resistance either if the relief valve is stuck open. Close the relief valve line off to check this.

Or the fuel pump suction valve is not closing. It takes all of ten minutes to remove the valve and clean it.

[whunter]

* Replace the primer pump.
* Pinch or plug the return line for testing..
* Worst case swap the lift pump assembly from any OM617.

This should get you running again.




.

[ashedd]

ok well the temp is above 35* so I will try to do a primer pump swap with my SD. I also need to replace my rear diff oil with some redline stuff in the 300D. Maybe my "bad" diff will get me around till I get the TD sorted out.


FYI.

My attorney feels I have a case against the drunk guy AND his employer down the block. He was drinking at his place of employment(restaurant) and when they closed he struck my car. I have since learned that he also struck my neighbors fence.... and I have 5 witnesses that state he tried to flee the scene after hitting my car.

Best I can tell, without removing the wheel, is my 400E's front control arm is severely bent aft allowing the tire to make solid contact with the body. Add to that the body damage and his insurance company will likely consider it a total loss. '92 400E cant be worth too much.

I will report back on my findings with the TD

[tangofox007]

Originally Posted by ashedd

ok well the temp is above 35* so I will try to do a primer pump swap with my SD.

None of the symptoms presented implicate the primer pump. Unless it is obstructed, the primer pump cannot fail to operate unless it leaks profusely. Most certainly, the primer pump cannot cause the fuel pump to fail without a corresponding massive leak.

On the other hand, a stuck suction valve in the fuel pump will affect both the fuel pump and the primer pump. Both use the same set of valves.

[ashedd]

Originally Posted by tangofox007

None of the symptoms presented implicate the primer pump. Unless it is obstructed, the primer pump cannot fail to operate unless it leaks profusely. Most certainly, the primer pump cannot cause the fuel pump to fail without a corresponding massive leak.

On the other hand, a stuck suction valve in the fuel pump will affect both the fuel pump and the primer pump. Both use the same set of valves.

I am not too sure sure what a suction valve is. Is it in the "lift" pump? And I am only assuming that the lift pump is the assembly that the primer pump attaches to?

As mentioned previously.. you need a crows foot to get these primer pumps off.

[ashedd]

Originally Posted by whunter

* Replace the primer pump.
* Pinch or plug the return line for testing..
* Worst case swap the lift pump assembly from any OM617.

This should get you running again.




.

Thanks for the call.. I was not expecting that

[ashedd]

I did try to "pump" the primer on the TD and noticed the primary filter would sorta fill with fuel then "leak" back down(away from the pump).

I just got the rear diff filled the 300d... I am semi mobile at the present.